Giving Children Alcohol - seriously?...

[adoptive dad]

Recently we were at a family friends house for an 'adults only' dinner party. They have three children - Luke aged 16, Lucy aged 13, and Lilly aged 7. Now everything was going well until Lilly begged to try her mums wine. To my personal horror the mother let her have a sip. Personally I don't want to judge but I can't help it here. I did some research and found out that On just one website that I clicked on (and a trusted one in the UK I might add) quite a few effects of alcohol from dehydration, to weight gain, from alcohol poisoning to liver damage. Now I know that would be based on excessive alcohol consumption, and we only witnessed a couple of sips. However they went on to say they often give a small amout of alcohol to their kids. Aparently by the time he was 13 Luie had been hungover.

Were we right to have alarm bells ringing? Or not, personally I don't mind in theory my kids as teenagers having the odd glass of cider or what have you but I just feel that it is a bit young at 7 to be having sips of wine, and definatly too young for a 13 year old to be hung over.

 

[akmom]

Personally I don't have a problem with letting kids sample things. If it's about setting an example that you shouldn't drink, then I suppose you wouldn't drink in front of your kids at all, and the incident would never come up. But indulging in front of kids and basically saying, "This is something I can have and you can't," probably does make it seem mysterious and desirable. My parents let us sample their wine and beer. It's bitter and unpleasant, so we didn't have much, but it satisfied the curiosity. My mom prescribed it for menstrual cramps when we were teens. None of us became drinkers. I don't think I've had any alcohol since my wedding, when someone brought champagne. And I've never been drunk.

So that's my personal experience with children sampling their parents' alcohol. No big deal. Now if one parent is an alcoholic, then the combination of that example and a relaxed attitude about minors consuming might yield a different outcome. Or if they were consistently shown that alcohol is a crucial part of having fun. Then you might be grooming them for alcoholism. But if you have the occasional wine with dinner, or beer at your cook-out, then you're demonstrating that it's just a beverage.

Letting a 7-year-old sample wine is probably okay. Letting a 13-year-old get drunk is not. I don't know if having a hangover is an indicator of excess. I mean, he could have gotten a headache unrelated to the alcohol. Or maybe he played it up as a hangover when it was nothing, because it sounded cool. Who knows?

 

[cybele]

Nah, I don't have a problem with a sip, can't recall exactly but I am sure that at some stage all of mine have had a sip of something.

We've had the younger teen hangover experience here. It happens sometimes, I just be sure to make the hangover as unpleasant for them as possible and make sure that they know that the world doesn't stop because they made a stupid decision and to avoid feeling this way in the future, don't make the same stupid decision. For the record, no, the alcohol didn't come from us, no idea where it came from really, my guess would be a friend's older sibling.

 

[Xero]

A 7 year old taking a tiny sip I suppose wouldn't bother me, although I would absolutely find it distasteful. I almost never drink in front of my kids, my DH sometimes will have a beer or two at family gatherings around them. If my kids ever went for the bottle or asked about it, I have always said "no, that's yucky, you're too little for that it will give you a tummy ache" etc. Neither of my kids have ever tried it, and I don't see a reason to let them. I would find a 7 year old sipping alcohol annoying, although it doesn't really make me mad or anything, I don't see myself allowing it that young.

It is illegal here (in many states, it isn't) to allow a minor (under 21) to have alcohol even under a parent's supervision, but say it was legal here under parental supervision as it is in other states, I might allow my 16 year old to have one singular glass of champagne or one beer on NYE or something. Maybe. Even then it would really depend on maturity as well. The thought of a 13 year old drinking enough to have a hangover the next day makes me sick and angry.

I think it's perfectly acceptable for there to be things that adults can have/do that kids can't. And for them to know all about it. They will be adults one day and then they can do it. I am not going to let my kids illegally take one puff off of a cigarette before they are 18 just so that it's not mysterious to them. I am not going to let them drive down just one road before they are 16 just to make it seem less desirable. I'm not going to expose them to gore and sex in mature rated movies just to make it less interesting to them. Some things, you just have to wait until you are older, fact of life.

Now on this topic, its funny you posted this actually, I was at a family cookout type thing on Sunday, and my one brother in law was there with his wife and daughter, who is I think maybe 14 months old. He was drinking a bottle of beer and she kept reaching for it so he laughed and helped her take a couple sips and then laughed some more when she seemed to like it. Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but that had me pissed off for the rest of the time I was there. I definitely just don't understand why you would put something like that in a baby's mouth. Ugh.

 

[akmom]

You know, Xero, after I posted that, I was kind of thinking the same thing. No, it's not okay to let a little kid sample weed. No, I wouldn't let them take a puff of cigarette. Or gnaw on a little tobacco. I'm not sure why alcohol seems like less of an issue for me! Maybe it's because I don't do those other things, and alcohol in moderation is generally considered okay. Well I don't drink either, but I'm not offended by it like the other things.

I don't know! Maybe it's because of how I was raised. I know, terrible reasoning, but that's what comes to mind. In my state, a parent or spouse can administer alcohol to a minor within reason. I didn't even participate in the poll, because in the states you can't drink until you're 21. I feel like the parental/spousal supervision exception is more about accommodating medicinal and religious uses, without getting too legalistic. But those exceptions applied even back during Prohibition!

 

[AlwaysConcerned]

I am highly against taking alcohol. I don't think people should be allowed to drink, until they can be held responsible for their actions.

*waits for others to bs me on this one*

 

[singledad]

I am of the school that believes that it is important to teach kids how drink responsibly, from a young age. All those effects you named –dehydration, weight gain, liver damage etc, are real, but you have to drink considerably more than I consider to be ok, even for an adult, before they become real risks. However, they,(and a few others I can think of) make it very important for a kid to understand that alcohol should always be treated with respect, IMO.

I don’t drink any alcohol, ever, and haven’t for over 18 years (18 years and two months, next Thursday, to be exact ), but my girlfriend does sometimes enjoy a glass of wine with her dinner (obviously not now that she’s pregnant, LOL!). Since it isn’t something I can do myself, I love the idea that she is modelling responsible alcohol consumption to my DD. A few months ago my daughter asked her what she was drinking, and asked if she could taste it. We explained to her that wine was only for grownups, but that she could have a very small little sip, just to taste, just this once, so that she can know what it is like. She smelled it, and apparently didn’t like the smell because she pulled a face and declined to taste. (For now, I like it that way. ) We also used the occasion to tell her something about the effects of drinking too much alcohol, too fast.

I believe in the idea that if kids are used to seeing adults around them have a glass of wine with dinner or the odd beer at a social event, alcohol won’t be something mysterious and exciting. Yes, Xero, I hear you on not allowing them to have a puff of a cigarette or driving down the road, and I agree with those. However, I don’t have a problem with letting my daughter sit on my lap and hold the steering wheel when I pull the car into the garage, or something like that. She believes she is driving, but we’re not breaking any laws or doing anything dangerous. I see allowing her to have a few (small) sips of something alcoholic in the same light. (it isn’t actually illegal here for a parent to allow his child to drink alcohol under supervision – it is only illegal to sell alcohol to minors). As for cigs – She will likely succumb to the mystery of it at some point, but unlike alcohol, one night of excess don’t hold any real danger. The danger from cigarettes is more a long term thing, while alcohol can potentially do real and lasting damage in one night. So I’m less worried about unsupervised experimentation with cigarettes than alcohol. Either way, I believe you can remove the mystery out of alcohol without allowing a kid to consume significant amounts, simply by treating it as a normal (though not every-day) part of life. Allowing her to consume significant amounts isn’t necessary. And btw – I would be EXTREMELY pissed if another adult gave my daughter alcohol behind my back. That is totally NOT ON.

As for a 13-year old with a hangover – I agree, that is seriously messed up. A thirteen year old (or any underage kid, for that matter) should never have enough to actually get drunk and have a hangover. I could probably stomach a few sips of champagne on a special occasion, but then, what’s wrong with getting a bottle of non-alcoholic champagne for the kids, so they don’t feel left out?

PS: For the record – 14 months is way too young. I saw allowing my DD to test my GF’s wine as an educational thing. That 14 month old didn’t learn anything from sipping his dad’s beer.

 

[singledad]

<r><QUOTE author="AlwaysConcerned;142051"><s>

</s>I am highly against taking alcohol. I don't think people should be allowed to drink, until they can be held responsible for their actions. <br/>
<br/>
*waits for others to bs me on this one*<e>

</e></QUOTE>

I was going to call bs, until I read the last bit –“until they can be held responsible for their actions”.<br/>
<br/>
Yes, If you can’t drink responsibly (and that includes knowing when to stop, knowing when you shouldn’t drive, make decisions, etc) –rather not drink at all. And if you drink, stop before you get totally drunk. Drunk people make stupid choices and get themselves (and sometimes others) in trouble. It’s a simple as that.</r>

 

[AlwaysConcerned]

<r><QUOTE author="singledad;142055"><s>

</s>I was going to call bs, until I read the last bit –“until they can be held responsible for their actions”.<br/>
<br/>
Yes, If you can’t drink responsibly (and that includes knowing when to stop, knowing when you shouldn’t drive, make decisions, etc) –rather not drink at all. And if you drink, stop before you get totally drunk. Drunk people make stupid choices and get themselves (and sometimes others) in trouble. It’s a simple as that.<e>

</e></QUOTE>

Mister singledad, won't you ever stop picking on me? -_-</r>

 

[singledad]

Lol. I wasn't picking on you, promise! I was actually agreeing with you, you know!

 

[AlwaysConcerned]

Lol. I wasn't picking on you, promise! I was actually agreeing with you, you know!

We'll see..
*waits for the next time you pick on me on another thread*

 

[IADad]

My kids haven't tried any (except for communion wine at church for the eldest, he didn't like it at all.) I'm good with telling them it's an adult thing, and setting a good example about being sure to be responsible with it in their presence. I want them to understand that beer and wine are foods and can be enjoyed by adults as such.

As for the idea of turning them on or off to drinking via sampling , I first had a beer by sneaking it after a party. We never had hardly any alcohol around our house. But my dad was a Realtor and they threw a party for his colleagues, so they stocked some beer for it. It was a normal kind of barbeque/cook-out, I don't recall anyone getting rowdy drinking, just adults having a couple beers and some food. I was probably 13 or 14. So, after party cleanup, my parents headed off to bed and there was still some beer in a cooler, I knew they wouldn't know if one more turned into an empty can, so I drank one. I didn't like it at all, but I drank the whole can (my parents were depression era kids, we didn't waste much around our house, hahaha) But that didn't stop me from acquiring a taste for it later, using is very improperly in college etc., and yes being irresponsible with it. So, I wouldn't say that first exposure had as much to do with my development as a drinker as much as peer actions, social norms etc.

I also had an experience where at probably 7 or 8, maybe 9, my dad let me sample some snuff offered up by his tractor mechanic (sorry, he was a farmer before becoming a Realtor, I realized that didn't make much sense why a Realtor would have tractors) and I puked. But I also sampled tobacco in my teens and had a bad snuff habit for over 15 years. So, I don't think using a substance as a "They'll get sick and stay away from it," lesson necessarily works. I do think hammering home the responsibility factor is hugely important. Oh, and the hangover lesson, yeah, don't you suppose it works for a while, but of those who drink here, who hasn't said "I'm never going to drink again" while suffering through a hangover?" and how many of you never did again?

 

[mom2many]

I don't drink, no real objection other then I have never found anything that appeals to me. A few weeks ago a friend suggested I try Moscato (sp?). I buy a bottle, come home and dig out the only wine glass I have, chill the wine, then give it a go. Yeah, still not sure where I stand on it, but Kailyn (3) wanted to taste it. No biggy, I don't think a sip is going to kill anyone. She takes her sip, let's out a big AHHHHHHHH, like it's the most refreshing thing in the world, and the promptly tries to rip her tongue out. It was funnier then heck.

I don't have a problem with a sip here and there. I would never allow mine to have a full on drink before the legal age though. I just think it's a stupid move on a parents part.

We also have a long history of addictions that run in my family. We talk about this often and I feel sips here and there take the mystery out of it.

 

[akmom]

Yeah, giving a baby a beer is definitely inappropriate. In the new parent educational pamphlets they gave me at the hospital when my first was born, it actually specified that you shouldn't give your baby alcohol! Apparently it used to be common to rub it on a teething baby's gums, and I guess some mothers also used to drink before breastfeeding to help their babies sleep. This was conventional wisdom not long ago!

I agree with not letting a kid drive down the road, but now we're talking about actual illegal activity. You're breaking the law if you drive down public roads unlicensed. But private roads? I was driving down those when I was 13. And before I was big enough to reach the pedal, I was driving on my dad's lap. My older two have already done that too!

 

[cybele]

You guys have private roads exempt from road rules?

I learned something new today.

 

[cybele]

Meanwhile, I was sitting on the hood of my car last night having a cigarette and a beer and Sunny went down to the general store, bought a bottle of cream soda and joined me (not the cigarette bit).
Hit my point of realisation that I am one of those parents in the original post. But we got a pretty deep conversation out of it and she didn't actually consume any alcohol, she just mimicked my behaviours to a tee which I find more concerning then her having a beer.

Anyway, back on topic, the young teen hangover was a once off 3 years ago and hasn't happened since, the certain offender has just wisened up to the fact that he shouldn't come home drunk. I have two 'kids' living in my house over legal drinking age here (they are 19 and 20, as our legal age is 18) and a nearly 17yr old who grabs a beer from the fridge every now and then that we don't take issue with (legal for minors to drink in the presence of their parents on their own property here) look, I'm not going to put any huge defence into it about desensitisation (none of the 3 are particularly stupid about alcohol, they have all had their moments, but they're teens, they're entitled to a moment here and there but 98% of the time they are nothing but responsible about it, that could be desensitisation or it could be personality, I have no way of knowing) but for now, it works for us.

 

[Xero]

If ever there is a special occasion where we are having wine or champagne around the kids, I always buy them their own sparkling grape juice. It looks the same to them and they love it, I highly doubt they have any desire for the other stuff haha.

 

[mom2many]

You guys have private roads exempt from road rules?

I learned something new today.

Yes, but they are roads built on private land. Usually in rural area's so that farmers can have access to different parts of their property.

Then there are parking lot's, those are also exempt from the laws of the roads...at least here they are.

 

[cybele]

Wow, here you still have to follow road rules in carparks and farm roads.

 

[mom2many]

Since they are not owned by the city, the city can't place restrictions on farm roads. Technically, they aren't roads.