Giving Children Alcohol - seriously?...

[IADad]

If ever there is a special occasion where we are having wine or champagne around the kids, I always buy them their own sparkling grape juice. It looks the same to them and they love it, I highly doubt they have any desire for the other stuff haha.

We do too, and it bothers me a little how much they enjoy the "Hey, I'm drinking like an adult" show. So, we balance that with frankness about responsible consumption. If we're out to dinner, sometimes I will have one or two beers with dinner but then DW drives, so we're trying to normalize and demystify alcohol and demonstrate that it can be consumed responsibly.

The scary part is that no matter how smart they are and how careful they might intend to be, I know they will make mistakes and largely I have to let them make SOME mistakes to learn, but when I look back, I was a smart careful kid and I did several things that luckily didn't end up hurting anyone, but oh so easily could have, and that goes for all kinds of things from drinking and driving, driving too fast, driving distracted, being under the influence in certain"Social situations..."it's scary.

A friend of mine from high school, just had an ordeal where his son, a high school student, was giving a ride to some other kids after an athletic practice. Well he was apparently going too fast, was probably distracted and went over the center line toward on-coming traffic, when he realized it he over corrected and rolled. One girl died in that accident. Now this kid isn't a bad kid, overall is a pretty responsible kid, but a few moments ofletting down his guard, showing off for friends, whatever the motivation was lead to tragedy these families are never going to fully recover from.

You can take a broader view and say, "well, yes, but unfortunate things happen everyday, you can't bubble wrap the world." but when it happens to you , especially when you know that a little bit of common sense and precaution would have prevented it, it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[akmom]

I don't really buy the whole "everyone makes mistakes" and the only thing preventing a big tragedy is luck. There is absolutely no reason to drive if you're intoxicated, distracted, or have some agenda besides getting from Point A to Point B. When I have a phone call to make, or one of my kids drops a toy, I pull over. Then I can give it my full attention. I even pull over if the kids are getting too loud or distracting me another way. We pull over, address the need, explain that I need to be able to watch the road and pay attention.

We have also had a discussion about how much time you save by speeding, at various distances. It's not much at all. And it's likely that the consequences for being 5 minutes late are the same as for being 3 minutes late. I'm really trying to instill in them that a lead foot won't solve the problem. I hate it when people tailgate, pass when there's barely room, rev their engines and slam their brakes in some erratic attempt to go faster than traffic allows. Driving is like anything in life... do what you can, and you'll get there when you get there. I don't think you "need" to have a close call or an accident to realize that you need to drive responsibly. Now just learning to handle the vehicle... sure. That comes with experience. But being young is no excuse for being reckless. No one should cross the centerline unless it's slippery or something ran out in front of them, or other traffic necessitates it.

 

[IADad]

I don't really buy the whole "everyone makes mistakes" and the only thing preventing a big tragedy is luck. There is absolutely no reason to drive if you're intoxicated, distracted, or have some agenda besides getting from Point A to Point B. When I have a phone call to make, or one of my kids drops a toy, I pull over. Then I can give it my full attention. I even pull over if the kids are getting too loud or distracting me another way. We pull over, address the need, explain that I need to be able to watch the road and pay attention.

We have also had a discussion about how much time you save by speeding, at various distances. It's not much at all. And it's likely that the consequences for being 5 minutes late are the same as for being 3 minutes late. I'm really trying to instill in them that a lead foot won't solve the problem. I hate it when people tailgate, pass when there's barely room, rev their engines and slam their brakes in some erratic attempt to go faster than traffic allows. Driving is like anything in life... do what you can, and you'll get there when you get there. I don't think you "need" to have a close call or an accident to realize that you need to drive responsibly. Now just learning to handle the vehicle... sure. That comes with experience. But being young is no excuse for being reckless. No one should cross the centerline unless it's slippery or something ran out in front of them, or other traffic necessitates it.

I agree, I'm teaching those things right now as we drive around, pointing out defensive things to do, pointing how stupid some common actions are and the consequence that might result,

But I don't get what you mean by "not buying" the "everyone makes mistakes thing." Did you think I was dismissing it on that basis? that's not my point. I think it's pretty universal that we have all done something that in retrospect we look back on and say "wow, I was incredibly lucky, that could have turned out tragic." Are you telling me that you've never once failed to look over your should when making a lane change and almost merged into somebody in your blind spot? That you've never failed to look left-right-left and almost pulled out infront of a speeding car? That you've never been in a hurry and pulled out of a parking place and hadjust a little bit of a close call with a pedestrian? My hat's off to you if you've been able to live your life with a perfect record of feeling 100% confident that you've been 100% perfect in everything you've done. I'm just saying I don't think there are very many people in the world so focused, aware and discuiplined to be able to say that.

I'm not at all saying "oh well, accidents happen, what can ya do?" I'm saying despite all our efforts to teach and despite our kids good intentions to try to be responsible, changes are at some point they are going to have a lapse in judgement, a loss of focus, an incorrect reaction to something unplanned, and that's scary as a parent, to KNOW that it's going to happen despite all your focus, hard work and teaching, and just hope that when it DOES happen, that hopefully it won't end in dire consequences.

 

[cybele]

Not to mention hat hindsight is 20/20, sometimes you think you are doing the right thing, turns out you're way off.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

I had my first full drink at age 12. We were in Italy, and at the dinner everybody, including children, had a glass of wine. Only one small child (4 or 5) had his wine watered down.

My first full drink at home was at 14. Since then i was allowed a drink like grown-ups on occasions.
Of course, in my teens that was not enough, and i had some episodes of inappropriate drink. But i guess nearly everybody has been there

As for my kids -- i've been told off by some other parents, that i let my kids have chocolates with brandy filling. myself i don't see any harm in that.

 

[adoptive dad]

Just realised I haven't posted back so here goes. Me and Fern arnt big alcohol drinkers ourselves we may have a glass of wine together in an evening or at a meal and I might have a cider when one of my favourite sports are on. I'd rather educate than let them taste this young. While I don't want my kids to make mistakes I know they will, I wanrt to educate but same time I need to let them learn from mistakes. Back to the original situation I think because it was obvious the tasting wasn't backed up with education there was no 'this is adult drink but so you know what its like we'll let you have a little try this once. Sort of thing it was kinda can I have a taste? Sure here you go sort of thing

 

[cybele]

Ooh Natalie I love those chocolates.
Eh, who am I kidding, I love all chocolate.

 

[Xero]

I need to try these chocolates. lol Where do I get them!!

 

[cybele]

They usually show up around Christmas.

 

[Xero]

Do they have a brand name or something, that I could look up or at least watch out for? I almost wonder if it's just something I've never noticed, or if it's not an America thing...

Edit: I googled it and I think I found them, among many other varieties of liquor chocolates! haha! Holy crap! xD

 

[cybele]

Whiskey ones are good too.

 

[adoptive dad]

I love those kind of chocolates we usually keep a box of them around and if they come out when the kids are here the older two can have one to the MILs horror but only Caitlyn likes them. Mathew tried one a few months ago next thing he grabs a tissue and spits it out while going yucky before running for a drink made us laugh that one. Tyger hasn't ever had ome

 

[akmom]

But I don't get what you mean by "not buying" the "everyone makes mistakes thing."

Well, the examples you gave are a little different than what I was envisioning. Several years ago, I was driving around a blind corner and a 17-year-old hit us because he was in the wrong lane. Apparently he was racing a friend and decided to use a no-passing zone to get around him. When I saw him coming, I was able to get on the shoulder and brake to almost a stop. But he was going too fast and lost control, and slid forward across the entire lane and hit me anyway. His car rolled and landed upside-down in the ditch and I'm surprised he lived. His car was totalled and his license was revoked. He wasn't insured either, so his family lost a vehicle in that accident, and I was stuck with the cost of my insurance deductible for my own vehicle. My insurance company sued on my behalf, but his family had no assets, so we didn't get any compensation. Five years later I get a letter from him promising reimbursement, in exchange for signing a release of liability. He said the accident "ruined his life" because no one would hire him with that accident on his record unless he got this release of liability. (He was applying for jobs that required a driver's license. They're not the only jobs on the planet.) I never signed it. He was found liable, so who am I to say he wasn't, when it's not true? I think it takes a certain level of selfishness or stupidity to take a risk like that, driving in the wrong lane when you can't see ahead of you. Every one knows that the opposite lane is designated for cars going the opposite direction. So every one knows that there is a distinct possibility of a car being there at any moment (unless you can see otherwise). So he decided that passing his friend was so fun that it was worth killing anyone in his path (including himself) for the chance at it. Wow. To call it "young and dumb" is an insult to young people, most of whom would never do a thing like that. And if they would, they don't have the maturity to drive. If it takes totalling two vehicles to learn that you shouldn't drive in the wrong lane, then you're better off not driving. Most people haven't had a lapse in judgment like that. He mentioned in the letter that he "learned his lesson." Well his family and mine both lost a vehicle, but congratulations, you learned a lesson that the rest of us figured out when we were five years old. No thanks, he can take a cab to work until the state chooses to renew his license. I didn't sign it.

 

[adoptive dad]

Well, the examples you gave are a little different than what I was envisioning. Several years ago, I was driving around a blind corner and a 17-year-old hit us because he was in the wrong lane. Apparently he was racing a friend and decided to use a no-passing zone to get around him. When I saw him coming, I was able to get on the shoulder and brake to almost a stop. But he was going too fast and lost control, and slid forward across the entire lane and hit me anyway. His car rolled and landed upside-down in the ditch and I'm surprised he lived. His car was totalled and his license was revoked. He wasn't insured either, so his family lost a vehicle in that accident, and I was stuck with the cost of my insurance deductible for my own vehicle. My insurance company sued on my behalf, but his family had no assets, so we didn't get any compensation. Five years later I get a letter from him promising reimbursement, in exchange for signing a release of liability. He said the accident "ruined his life" because no one would hire him with that accident on his record unless he got this release of liability. (He was applying for jobs that required a driver's license. They're not the only jobs on the planet.) I never signed it. He was found liable, so who am I to say he wasn't, when it's not true? I think it takes a certain level of selfishness or stupidity to take a risk like that, driving in the wrong lane when you can't see ahead of you. Every one knows that the opposite lane is designated for cars going the opposite direction. So every one knows that there is a distinct possibility of a car being there at any moment (unless you can see otherwise). So he decided that passing his friend was so fun that it was worth killing anyone in his path (including himself) for the chance at it. Wow. To call it "young and dumb" is an insult to young people, most of whom would never do a thing like that. And if they would, they don't have the maturity to drive. If it takes totalling two vehicles to learn that you shouldn't drive in the wrong lane, then you're better off not driving. Most people haven't had a lapse in judgment like that. He mentioned in the letter that he "learned his lesson." Well his family and mine both lost a vehicle, but congratulations, you learned a lesson that the rest of us figured out when we were five years old. No thanks, he can take a cab to work until the state chooses to renew his license. I didn't sign it.

Well Said Akmon. I agree with everything you said there. You see when I was teaching fern to drive about 7 years ago she was hit by a car in a very similar situation. It wasn't the fact that the other driver had writen both cars off. It was the fact he had broken four UK driving laws. But even more than that the fact it took Fern another two years to get behind the wheel again. Drivers should be responsible for their actions from what you said Akmom I don't see him taking responsibility.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

They are called Weinbrand Bohnen, i get them in Lidl.

 

[Maser]

Underage drinking is something I feel I have way too much experience with. I can't speak for other's here but rather only share my own personal experiences with it.

First off, technically every single kid has had alcohol in their body. Whether is be from the vanilla extract from raw cookie dough or an overly ripe fruit that's starting to ferment. Yeah, I know that's not nearly enough to cause any form of intoxication, but you get the point I'm trying to make here. Now onto my experience.

I am almost 24 and have an almost 3 year old and 7 year old sons and I'm legal guardian of my 15 year old brother. Technically, I been drinking alcohol my entire life. My parent's remedy for anytime I was sick or wouldn't sleep was to give me hot brandy and honey. When I was 9 years old and living in a group home, myself and some of the other kids snuck out during the night with 2 of those large fat bottles of wine with the little handles on the neck. I don't remember how much of the first one I drank, but the second one I drank all myself. Needless to say I had to be carried home. So that was my very first experience with the major effects of alcohol. After my time in the group home was done and after some legal troubles I got into at age 11 and 12, I was back living with my parents again. They were pretty Conservative about certain things like enforcing corporal punishment and such, but very Liberal about letting me stay out as long as I want and allowing me to drink at home. But I was never a binge drinker during my teenage years, but rather just a simple casual drinker. Whether that's considered good or not, it's still a no-no for a teen to drink. Now the real kicker is whenever we were at family gatherings. Nobody said a word if I went over to the cooler and took a beer or made myself a margarita. One day I actually asked why nobody minded and the reply was that I drank like a responsible adult and not an idiot. I guess having that type of freedom made it feel like drinking alcohol at my age wasn't that big of a deal whereas my friends who didn't have that freedom wished they did and the rare times they got ahold of alcohol, they didn't know how to handle it when the effects kicked in.

Anyways, fast forward to the present time. I rarely drink anything around my kids and that also includes my brother. I also DO NOT give either of them whole drinks or even sips. My brother had a few alcohol related incidents with his friends, but nothing major. Just slept it off. It's easy to explain my rules about alcohol to my brother, but it took a bit longer explaining to my oldest son. See, during a dinner where I did in fact drink a Smirnoff Ice with our dinner, my oldest kept reaching for it and thought it was funny. I didn't find it funny and it almost earned him a spanking because defiance towards adults is a cardinal rule in our household that earns an auto-spanking no questions asked. So after dinner and while he was getting ready for bed, I sat down with him and told him the entire story about me drinking as a kid and explained to him that in many ways, it made me grow up too fast and miss out on my childhood. While all the other pre-teens were doing pre-teen stuff amongst eachother, I was sitting with the adults drinking beer and talking about boring adult stuff when I should have been playing with others my age. My son understood clearly and hasn't said a word about it since. I'm sure the same conversation will need to be had with my youngest in a few more years.

So yeah, I may seem like a hypocrite, but I use my own experience as a teaching tool to them. I hope this post doesn't seem like I'm supporting kids drinking based on my story because that's not the case.

Now as for my feelings nowadays about the OP of this thread. All parents are very sensitive and defensive when other parents try and tell them how to raise their kids. If I am at a family gathering or party in general and I see something harmless like a dad giving his son a sip of beer, then I'm not gonna say anything, but if I see a kid doing the things I did as a kid, I'm definitely gonna say something to the parents. Maybe even tell them my story if that helps.

 

[Xero]

TabascoNatalie - Nice thanks, found them on Amazon.com. So cool! I will have to try those.

adoptivedad - Tyger is so cute! Look at all that hair! My 2 year old is only just now starting to grow his in. He has always been such a baldy. Got some peach fuzz around a year old and has been working on actual hair since then haha. My oldest however, always had a long mop of hair like that when he was little. So funny.

 

[adoptive dad]

Aww thanks yeah Tyger has always had a ton of hair compared to Mathew who has quite thin hair in comparison. Yours are both cute too. Yours suits his thin crop of hair.

 

[Xero]

Thank you! I think he does.

 

[IADad]

Well, the examples you gave are a little different than what I was envisioning. Several years ago, I was driving around a blind corner and a 17-year-old hit us because he was in the wrong lane. Apparently he was racing a friend and decided to use a no-passing zone to get around him. When I saw him coming, I was able to get on the shoulder and brake to almost a stop. But he was going too fast and lost control, and slid forward across the entire lane and hit me anyway. His car rolled and landed upside-down in the ditch and I'm surprised he lived. His car was totalled and his license was revoked. He wasn't insured either, so his family lost a vehicle in that accident, and I was stuck with the cost of my insurance deductible for my own vehicle. My insurance company sued on my behalf, but his family had no assets, so we didn't get any compensation. Five years later I get a letter from him promising reimbursement, in exchange for signing a release of liability. He said the accident "ruined his life" because no one would hire him with that accident on his record unless he got this release of liability. (He was applying for jobs that required a driver's license. They're not the only jobs on the planet.) I never signed it. He was found liable, so who am I to say he wasn't, when it's not true? I think it takes a certain level of selfishness or stupidity to take a risk like that, driving in the wrong lane when you can't see ahead of you. Every one knows that the opposite lane is designated for cars going the opposite direction. So every one knows that there is a distinct possibility of a car being there at any moment (unless you can see otherwise). So he decided that passing his friend was so fun that it was worth killing anyone in his path (including himself) for the chance at it. Wow. To call it "young and dumb" is an insult to young people, most of whom would never do a thing like that. And if they would, they don't have the maturity to drive. If it takes totalling two vehicles to learn that you shouldn't drive in the wrong lane, then you're better off not driving. Most people haven't had a lapse in judgment like that. He mentioned in the letter that he "learned his lesson." Well his family and mine both lost a vehicle, but congratulations, you learned a lesson that the rest of us figured out when we were five years old. No thanks, he can take a cab to work until the state chooses to renew his license. I didn't sign it.

Yeah, we're on the same page, I'm not saying that "everyone makes mistakes" is an excuse, I'm just saying it's a reality. They will make mistakes and we hope that they don't hurt themselves or anyone else and we train to try to prevent them. I also 100% agree that if you did make a mistake and it caused harm, unfortunately you have to pay the appropriate penalty, if it makes life difficult, well, unfortunately your decision brought that on.

So, yeah, that kids decision did ruin his life so far, but it's what he does with it today that will make the difference, if he's committed and wants to make this right, through diligence he may be able to. Yeah, I'm not in favor of just erasing the record because someone made a mistake and they're sorry.

The family I talked about is living the pain of paying for that accident. It's just too bad that it had to happen in the first place, good people who do something stupid, you feel for the others impacted (i.e. the parents and certainly the parents of the kid who was killed.) but yes they are facinf the responsibility in the aftermath.