How to deal with a MIL who just won't quit smoking (at least while visiting)??...

[VeggieMomma]

Hello!!

I am suppose to have my daughter sometime soon... My due date is 12/9/12 and we are constantly fighting this battle with my mother-in-law about smoking around the baby! They are coming down 1/5/13 and I am SO tired of fighting with her... Today, I called her to talk to her about it and asked her if she was going to ONLY smoke her e-cig while visiting us since they are staying IN OUR HOME (they are from NYC and don't visit often) and she said, yes, she was going to ONLY smoke the e-cig and outside. I was more than happy with that answer. I also told them that I wanted them to shower/let me wash their clothes with our detergents before they held the baby since they are flying and I don't want the germs and left over smoke smell left on their clothes while holding my new born baby... She said, "no big deal, we can do that!"

I was so surprised it was so easy but then my husband calls them tonight to speak to them, just catch up and everything and she tells him... "Im going to smoke real cigs outside only and change my shirt and wash my hands after each one."

Now, I have to call and deal with her again tomorrow and I just don't understand why she would lie to me...

Any advice on how to deal with this? I am so fed up with her constantly fighting us. She doesn't care about what we want and she thinks that "doctors exaggerate how bad smoke is." Have any of you moms dealt with this?

My husband tries so hard to deal with her but he is a very anxious person and doesn't do well under stress and already has a shaky relationship with her so, it has to be me who deals with it.

Please, help?

 

[bssage]

Well I suppose your house your rules. It does to me sound excessive to insist on washing her clothes due to germs and the smoke smell. I also think her going outside is reasonable.

It should be interesting how you will ever bring your baby out in public. With all the germs and smoke smell. Will everyone who comes to your house be required to take a shower?

And as far as lying. Would you let her visit her grand baby if she just told you the truth? How long are they going to be there? A couple hours?? A few days? How long has she been addicted 40 50 years?

I am sorry about giving you a hard time.

This will mark the first time I sided with the MIL. But I do know what it is like being additional to cig's.

Sounds your treating them like inmates.

Frankly it sounds a little creepy that in order to visit they have to let you wash their clothes and take a shower using your soap.

Its ok if you disagree. Just my honest opinion.

 

[VeggieMomma]

I don't think Im being excessive at all! They are staying in my home for a week... The smell will be brought into my home every time she goes outside and it will linger in my furniture and carpets.

My husband has dealt with many medical problems because of her smoking habits. She smoked throughout her entire pregnancy with him and throughout his whole life and now we are dealing with things because of that.

I want her to be reasonable and understanding. In public is different... No one will be breathing in her face, holding her, or touching her. She will not be 2 weeks old (or so) and be exposed to such a harmful thing. They will be staying with us for a week and then returning to NYC (we live in FL).

I don't see why she can't use her electronic cigarette instead of a real one when she uses both right now. I think she just wants to be difficult because she doesn't respect us. She has been smoking for 20 years.

I also didn't say that they had to "use my soap" I just want the smoke smell and the germs from flying out of their clothing before holding my new born baby (especially when MRSA is caught usually in airports/airplanes.)

I hope that maybe this will help you understand where Im coming from...

 

[cybele]

I think you are being unreasonable.

Asking that they do not smoke around your daughter is one thing, but specifying how they clean their clothing and such is nit-picking and over the top. I doubt a two week old is going to catch anything from the smell of cigarettes on clothing (and as someone who has two parents who are pack a day smokers, I get the whole being grossed out by it, but in reality, stale smoke smell on clothing isn't harmful to babies)

The chance of your baby developing MRSA from their clothes is also very very slim.

To me, the line "I think she just wants to be difficult because she doesn't respect us. " is interesting. Respect works two ways, like it or not, your MIL has every right to smoke. It is her choice, you are more than welcome to not allow her to smoke in your home, but it is not up to you whether she uses an e-cigarette or real one and when, her body her choice. I would suspect that she agreed with you because she didn't want to argue, but brought it up with your husband because she was upset with your demands.

 

[VeggieMomma]

<r>Again, I don't think I am nit-picking. I didn't specify how their clothes were to be cleaned, all I asked was that they were washed outside of their home because the entire house smells of smoke, I can't even stand being next to her.. Imagine my newborn baby being in her arms for long periods of time breathing the smoke in... It's uncomfortable and it's not okay. Smoke on clothes is dangerous to babies (I have done my research and so has my husband.) I think that if it wasn't I obviously wouldn't be making an issue out of it, nor would I continuously deal with her being angry at not just me but my husband (my husband feels just as strongly about this as I do, he just has a hard time communicating with her because he is an anxious person and doesn't deal with confrontation well.)<br/>
<br/>
I understand that chances are she might not get MRSA but she could get other germs from the flight. It's not uncommon and even our pediatrician said that it's best if they change their clothing and wash up before holding her (which is all I asked for.)<br/>
<br/>
My MIL doesn't have the right to smoke anywhere near my daughter. Smoke lingers. <br/>
<br/>
"Up to 90 per cent of the nicotine from cigarette smoke can stick to walls, clothes, hair and skin, Georg Matt, a professor at San Diego State University, found.<br/>
<br/>
His early research suggests the chemicals from this 'third hand smoke' can be swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin of non-smokers, putting babies at particular risk.<br/>
<br/>
The youngsters absorbed the harmful chemicals simply from touching furniture in a smoker's house, or hugging their mothers after they had a cigarette.<br/>
<br/>
The risks of second-hand smoke are already known. Babies and children exposed to a smoky atmosphere are twice as likely to have asthma attacks and chest infections, and more likely to need hospital care in their first year of life. They are also at higher risk of cot death. - <URL url="</s>Read more<e></e></URL>"<br/>
<br/>
"Add a new health threat to smoking: In addition to the harm caused by actually smoking and exposure to second-hand smoke, so-called third-hand smoke may also pose a threat, particularly to babies and toddlers.<br/>
A new study reveals that the residue of nicotine that lingers on surfaces can react with another chemical in the air to form potent carcinogens — chemicals linked to various cancers. While first-hand smoke is that inhaled directly by the smoker and second-hand is the smoke exhaled (and inhaled by others), third-hand smoke is the residue from second-hand smoke." (<URL url="</s>MSNBC<e></e></URL&gt<br/>
<br/>
I understand it is not my right to choose whether she uses an e-cig or a real one ALL THE TIME but it is my right to say, you are staying in my home, you are going to be holding my daughter, you said yourself that the e-cig is just as effective as a real one, please, smoke that. If she doesn't comply then it is also my right to say she cannot hold my daughter or stay in my home considering the smoke will be brought into MY HOME and put into MY DAUGHTERS lungs. <br/>
<br/>
That's all fine and dandy if she wanted to not fight but I think it's incredibly immature of her. I also know she wasn't too happy when my husband told her the same thing I did & that he let her know I will be calling to discuss it more tomorrow.<br/>
<br/>
I really don't understand how myself and my husband are getting negative feedback for wanting to protect our daughter from something that is bad for her...</r>

 

[Jeremy+3]

I take it you will never take her in a car or near a road as the fumes are more dangerous and toxic than cigarette smoke. If you're worried about cigarettes why is she 'allowed' to some e-cigs, they still contain nicotine and carcinogens.

If you are worried about MRSA I assume you are having a home birth and you will have your entire body sterlised each time you hole your baby, as the majority of the human population carry MRSA, thats how you catch it, not by entering certain environments.

All of the links you posted are also completely rubbish, do you seriously believe msn is a credible source? Plus those 'scientists' were paid by a certain source to get a certain result, which is why they have hidden the actual raw data in their study.

Do you want to know about a really dangerous compound?
It can cause excessive sweating and vomiting
Its a major component in acid rain
It can cause severe burns in the gaseous phase
Accidental inhalation can be fatal
It causes erosion
It decreases the effectiveness of vehicle brakes
It is found in all cancers.

I take it you will be banning the above chemical from your home?

 

[VeggieMomma]

You are being silly now. I am preventing something that I can prevent... Obviously in life she will be exposed to things but not as a 2 week old and not because I couldn't keep it from happening. Her e-cig does not contain anything but water vapors (I bought it so I know, again, I did my research.)

My main point about the MRSA thing was that planes carry a lot of germs and all I want is for them to wash up and change before holding my daughter.. Why is that unacceptable? They are staying in my home and spending time with my daughter? She is a NEWBORN. I want to make sure she doesn't get sick...

I think there are many other sources out there but I chose ones that I found quickly. I have other studies saved on my computer and even research from my pediatrician that I could have shared if I had felt the need to. My point is that it is dangerous and it has been proven to be dangerous.

You didn't tell me what the chemical was so how can I tell you if it is banned or not?

We use organic cleaning products in our home and will continue to do so.

Again, I don't understand how I am wrong for asking my MIL to not smoke near my child or bring it into my home and wash up when she arrives after flying on a plane with 100 other people who are carrying germs...?

 

[Jeremy+3]

Oh, so at two weeks she wont have been exposed to car fumes, so you are most definitely having a home birth and you live miles away from the nearest road? I guess then if anyone in the family ventures outside they need to change their car fume covered clothes?

Aeroplanes are not germ magnets, everyone is covered in bacteria, including you and your unborn baby.

It hasn't been proven dangerous, all the 'research' on this topic is a load of rubbish, that is why the 'researchers' refuse to public their raw data and that is why the articles cannot be found in any scientific article as they would not pass peer reviewing.

Ah organic, like cancer, alcohol, MRSA, measles, radiation, e-coli and hepatitis.

Surely on the profound effects caused by that chemical such an item would be banned from your home or at least you would make sure your baby didn't have access to it?

Not a single e-cig on the market contains merely water vapour, they all contain nicotine, that is how they work. The 'smoke' is made of water vapour but it also contains nicotine and some carcinogens.

 

[cybele]

But you are not asking her not to smoke near your daughter, she has agreed to smoke outside, you are asking her to wash her clothes and herself before touching her because of germs and the smell of stale smoke. Your daughter will be exposed to millions of germs, germs are good, they build up your immune system. Your daughter has already been exposed to many many germs through you and your everyday happenings, before she is even born.

I don't think anyone is saying you are flat out wrong, just taking this a little over the top.

 

[VeggieMomma]

But you are not asking her not to smoke near your daughter, she has agreed to smoke outside, you are asking her to wash her clothes and herself before touching her because of germs and the smell of stale smoke. Your daughter will be exposed to millions of germs, germs are good, they build up your immune system. Your daughter has already been exposed to many many germs through you and your everyday happenings, before she is even born.

I don't think anyone is saying you are flat out wrong, just taking this a little over the top.

I am asking her to wash up, meaning wash her hands and change her clothes after flying... (I do this no matter what I am doing.. Flying is gross...) I am not asking her to take a shower or anything... I am asking that her clothes be washed outside of her home, yes, because third hand smoke is bad for you and if it hurts my nose, I know it will hurt my daughters. I understand germs are good for you and help build your immune system but I also don't want my 2 week old daughter getting sick from these germs. I don't feel comfortable exposing her to a bunch of germs from an airplane full of random people.

Im not trying to take it over the top, I just don't want her to smoke around my child, bring it in my house, or have to smell it. If she is comfortable with smoking the e-cig which she said she was and I've seen her use it, then I don't understand why she is fighting so hard other than to win because she is just that kind of person...

 

[VeggieMomma]

Oh, so at two weeks she wont have been exposed to car fumes, so you are most definitely having a home birth and you live miles away from the nearest road? I guess then if anyone in the family ventures outside they need to change their car fume covered clothes?

Aeroplanes are not germ magnets, everyone is covered in bacteria, including you and your unborn baby.

It hasn't been proven dangerous, all the 'research' on this topic is a load of rubbish, that is why the 'researchers' refuse to public their raw data and that is why the articles cannot be found in any scientific article as they would not pass peer reviewing.

Ah organic, like cancer, alcohol, MRSA, measles, radiation, e-coli and hepatitis.

Surely on the profound effects caused by that chemical such an item would be banned from your home or at least you would make sure your baby didn't have access to it?

Not a single e-cig on the market contains merely water vapour, they all contain nicotine, that is how they work. The 'smoke' is made of water vapour but it also contains nicotine and some carcinogens.

Im honestly tired of arguing with someone who refuses to believe that smoke is bad for you. I feel like you are just trying to make me out to be wrong instead of helping me. You can continue to think research is "rubbish" and that I am crazy but the truth is, I just want my daughter to be safe and my MIL doesn't care about safety; she is just being selfish. She has admitted to liking and using the e-cig and just doesn't want to do so because it's want I and my husband want. There are e-cigs that you can get without nicotine, please don't treat me as if I am stupid and have no clue as to what Im talking about. I wouldn't say it if I hadn't read about it/seen it, etc.

 

[bssage]

You asked for opinions. If you only want the opinions that agree with yours you should say so in the intro.

I also told them that I wanted them to shower

This:

I am not asking her to take a shower or anything

Contradicts this

let me wash their clothes with our detergents

This:

I am asking that her clothes be washed outside of her home

Contradicts this

"Im going to smoke real cigs outside only and change my shirt and wash my hands after each one."

This:

She doesn't care about what we want

Contradicts this.

not trying to take it over the top,

My opinion is that you are.

I just don't want her to smoke around my child, bring it in my house, or have to smell it.

Using the links you supplied. I think there will be a huge difference even with there numbers when comparing a two week limited exposure to just the smell. To full on pack a day primary care giving parents who smoke.

If she is comfortable with smoking the e-cig which she said she was and I've seen her use it, then I don't understand why she is fighting so hard other than to win because she is just that kind of person...

She probably is comfortable for a few hours using the Ecig. Not days. My opinion is her "win" is being allowed to visit a grand baby. If you have other examples maybe I could agree with you. If this is the only one. I think its you looking for the "win"

Im honestly tired of arguing with someone who refuses to believe that smoke is bad for you.

Jeremy at no point said smoking was not bad for you. All he said were that the links you supplied lack any substance. That they do not link to actual studies: That they do not include methodology's: That they clearly reflect the agenda of the party that funded the study. And that if they had some significance they would have been through the peer review process that studies with solid method's based in science would have. He is neither insulting you or arguing with you. He is simply sharing an opinion based off of the information you have supplied us.

You can read some of the older posts on this site. Parents are bombarded with this study and that. This expert and that one. We have evolved to the point that most of us want to see the study before we attach a value to it.

And the "If there is any risk why do it at all" really does not fly. Unless you live in a bubble. IMHO the risk of your daughter being estranged from her grandparents seem to be much more present than the risk of exposure to their smell for two weeks.

Just my opinion.

You should keep in mind. I am not telling you this stuff in the spirit of meanness. I am just sharing an honest opinion.

 

[Neway]

This is taken from the Australian Breastfeeding associations webpage regarding smoking while breastfeeding, but can easily be applied to smoking relatives as well.

Cover up and clean up. Each time you have a cigarette, the smoke is trapped in your clothing, hair and skin. You won’t always be able to change your clothes, brush your teeth, shower and wash your hair after each cigarette. However, you could think about having a ‘smoking outfit’ or something to cover your clothes, which you keep outside to change into. Cover your hair with a shower cap or scarf. You can then wash your hands and brush your teeth when you take off the outer layer.

Maybe you could reach a happy medium in this situation by providing this option to her.

Breastfeeding helps protect the baby from these harmful effects of cigarette smoke.

Breastfeeding will also supply all the antibodies that your baby will need to combat most "germs" that your inlaws may drag in from the airport.

https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/breastfeeding-and-smoking[/URL]

 

[singledad]

Hi VeggieMomma

As an ex-smoker, I share your disgust with the smell of smoke, however, I think you have to be careful about picking your battles.

Here's what my rules would be
- Smoke only outside, away from the door, so no smoke blows into the house.
- Wash your hands and rinse with mouthwash before you hold her.
- I like the idea of a "smoking outfit". That would take care of the smell and possibly nicotine deposits on their clothes.

If it makes you feel any better, at 2 weeks your baby will spend most of his time sleeping, and not in your MIL's arms!

I understand your fear about MSRA and airports, but the reality is that if they catch it, their clothes are the least of your worries. Germs don't live long on clothes. It's the germs in their bodies you should be worried about. In other words, the only way to avoid your baby coming into contact with those germs, is to let your in-laws stay in quarantine for a few weeks in between coming off the flight and entering your home. The good news is that especially if you breastfeed, but even if you don't, it really will be ok. (btw - if they're anything like me and most people I know, they'd want to wash up and change their clothes when they come off the plane anyway).

I totally get why you are afraid and that you just want to do everything in your power to protect your baby - that is normal, and a good thing, but I think you are worrying unnecessarily. Babies are stronger than they look.

I believe that allowing a strong and healthy relationship to form between your baby and her grand-parents will do more good in the long run than limited amounts of third-hand smoke for two weeks will do harm.

 

[Mom2all]

I am going to assume that this is your first baby. Not to take away from your concerns, but with first baby's, most mothers go completely overboard with concerns about everything.. makes you normal. I myself scrubbed my kitchen floor the day before my daughter was born with a toothbrush so nasty germs wouldn't find her. Looking back.. I doubt that in that first week of her life the chances of her laying on the floor licking it were slim.

Being concerned is okay and normal. But I think you have really locked in on the smoking and decided to stand your ground on this a little to far. Change your clothes when you get here from the airport, wash your hands, smoke outside and cover up with a jacket while your out there. That should be enough.

Otherwise.. to be fair and not appear to be just harassing her for her nasty smoking habit.. you have to consider ALL GERMs FROM EVERYONE.

Toilet flushing through bacteria in the air. Men hold their penises while peeing. People pick their noses in cars and then touch their clothes before getting to a sink to wash up. Pet their dogs.. rub their cats... hold babies with dirty diapers.. take out their garbage... pay for a drink at the gas station with cash.. ( money has more germs than anything), and here's the big one.. put their hands on your kitchen counter. Did you know that more germs are in your kitchen than in your bathroom? True story.. look it up.

So unless you've going to have every person that exist.. including you and your husband.. shower in and change into fresh clothes you provide.. before touching that baby.. your fighting a losing battle.. and being unfair if you don't. The smell of smoke with have less germs that you while leaning on your counter making a cup of coffee.

Here's the good news. The more germs your baby comes into contact with the more her body learns to fight them. I'm not saying dunk her in the toilet for baths.. but a little bit here and there build her immune system. Breast feeding gives her your antibodies. Your baby will come on these things.. sometimes she might even get sick.. but she'll be just fine.

 

[NancyM]

I've been reading the posts here veggiemomma and I really do understand your concerns for your baby. I too was a bit fanatical with my son, I was afraid of many things that when I look back now I have to laugh at how silly some of it was, and just hope no one else remembers. lol

Try to relax, take a deep breath and remember that we were all born, and we were ALL exposed to cigarette smoke, and other deadly chemicals at some point in our young lives.

Babies are really strong and a healthy baby can fight off just about all ordinary germs in it's surroundings. I'm sure your baby will be a healthy baby because you sound like you will be a good caring mom who will see to it.

It's funny because my friends and I were just talking the other day how we all were exposed to our parents smoke when we were born, and lived with it throughout our lives. Both my parents smoked, and it was kind the norm back than almost all adults smoked.

People smoked in doctors office waiting rooms, and hospital waiting rooms EVEN THE DOCTOR smoked! lol There were smoking sections in all public buildings, even the teachers smoked in the teachers lounge.

I agree it's best not to expose your infant to the smoking, but try not to battle it out with the MIL because this can only end up bad.

Just politely set your rules, maybe just something like please wash hands, and if you do smell the smoke on her, ask her to put one of those burping pads across her clothing when she holds your baby.
personally I wouldn't like my babies skin touching clothing that I thought wasn't clean either.

Other than that, try to relax about it, really, your going to have enough surprises and new experiences to deal with once the baby is born, and guess what...you may even need grandma to help you out one day, so try to work it out with out to much tension.

Good luck to you.

 

[VeggieMomma]

You asked for opinions. If you only want the opinions that agree with yours you should say so in the intro.

This:

Contradicts this

This:

Contradicts this


This:

Contradicts this.

My opinion is that you are.

Using the links you supplied. I think there will be a huge difference even with there numbers when comparing a two week limited exposure to just the smell. To full on pack a day primary care giving parents who smoke.

She probably is comfortable for a few hours using the Ecig. Not days. My opinion is her "win" is being allowed to visit a grand baby. If you have other examples maybe I could agree with you. If this is the only one. I think its you looking for the "win"

Jeremy at no point said smoking was not bad for you. All he said were that the links you supplied lack any substance. That they do not link to actual studies: That they do not include methodology's: That they clearly reflect the agenda of the party that funded the study. And that if they had some significance they would have been through the peer review process that studies with solid method's based in science would have. He is neither insulting you or arguing with you. He is simply sharing an opinion based off of the information you have supplied us.

You can read some of the older posts on this site. Parents are bombarded with this study and that. This expert and that one. We have evolved to the point that most of us want to see the study before we attach a value to it.

And the "If there is any risk why do it at all" really does not fly. Unless you live in a bubble. IMHO the risk of your daughter being estranged from her grandparents seem to be much more present than the risk of exposure to their smell for two weeks.

Just my opinion.

You should keep in mind. I am not telling you this stuff in the spirit of meanness. I am just sharing an honest opinion.

I see where I have contradicted myself here and there but honestly I just want her to do what I want and stop being a hassle. Especially because she said when we go to visit her in April she said that she would stop smoking two weeks before and not smoke the whole time we were there JUST so we would stay with her when my husband told her we were going to stay in a subletted apartment. If she can stop smoking for three weeks then, why can't she do it for one week when my daughter is JUST born? I understand now where you might think I am being rude and nit-picky towards her but she is not my favorite person in the world as she has called me many nasty names over the years and generally lies to my face every chance she gets. As a child who was severely abused by her father, I no longer have the patience to put up with someone being selfish or spiteful and I feel that her not wanting to give up one week of smoking to spend time with her granddaughter is just that.

I just want her to follow my rules because I do feel strongly about the smoke. My husband growing up was constantly sick from it and her being exposed at all makes me uncomfortable. Especially when my own grandfather stopped smoking just recently after learning about our rules and he is much older and has been smoking for much longer than her.

I hope maybe that helps you to see again, where I am coming from...

 

[VeggieMomma]

This is taken from the Australian Breastfeeding associations webpage regarding smoking while breastfeeding, but can easily be applied to smoking relatives as well.

Maybe you could reach a happy medium in this situation by providing this option to her.

Breastfeeding will also supply all the antibodies that your baby will need to combat most "germs" that your inlaws may drag in from the airport.

https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/breastfeeding-and-smoking[/URL]

Thank you for showing this to me. I will speak to my husband about the smoking outfit if worse comes to worse. I would really just like her to respect us enough to do as we're asking (especially if you see the above post where she said she would stop smoking for three weeks when we visit her in April 13' - again, I see no reason why she can't stop smoking for one week while here, or use an e-cig...)

 

[mom2many]

I'm gonna clarify from the beginning, I am a smoker.

I think there is nothing wrong with asking them to smoke outside, away from doors and windows. I see nothing wrong with them washing their hands and/or using mouth wash...although I can't see them licking the baby or anything. Some kind of cover-up is even a reasonable request, although you then have to consider where it will be stored once they take it off.

Everything else does lend it's hand at to much control. Of course after 8 kids, a kid licking the floor doesn't even phase me

At this point I will just second everything, Nancy and Mom2all said.

 

[mom2many]

Thank you for showing this to me. I will speak to my husband about the smoking outfit if worse comes to worse. I would really just like her to respect us enough to do as we're asking (especially if you see the above post where she said she would stop smoking for three weeks when we visit her in April 13' - again, I see no reason why she can't stop smoking for one week while here, or use an e-cig...)

Honey if it was just that easy to stop smoking, most smokers wouldn't smoke.