I don't like my oldest son...

[greyarea33]

That wasn't a typo. Here is my unusual introduction... I'm a happily married father of 3 children who I absolutely love with all my heart. My 2 oldest boys are from a prior marriage. There begins the issue... I am a victim of parental alienation. Their mother has been in jail for drugs,been in and out of relationships with alcoholics/drug addicts/biker gang members, repeatedly bad mouths myself and my wife to the boys, provides no rules or structure for the boys therefore makes me the bad guy because I do provide rules and structure, blah blah blah... You get the picture its a bad situation. I have full custody of my children and she gets supervised visitation on weekends with her mother. (Which has been violated repeatedly.) We are due in court in about 2 weeks for a full blown trial.

Basically my oldest 14 year old son is a teenager. He does teenager things. The problem here is that for the past three years I have felt like my hands are tied in the way I am trying to raise him. I try to put an emphasis on the importance of school and his mom doesn't care about school. I try to teach him right from wrong such as don't use tobacco products, don't lie, be respectful and kind. I think his mom is sneaking him chewing tobacco, she encourages him to sneak a cell phone in our house which he isn't allowed to have because of problems that happened when he had a cell phone in the past, she constantly bad mouths me to he and his brother, etc... (Yes I know ...HOw could I have ever been with this woman? Well I got married at 17 years old myself. She has actually changed a great deal since her addiction to cocaine began about 7 years ago)

He is lazy, rude, a liar, a sneak, doesn't try in school, ungrateful, uncaring, has no regret or remorse when he is caught doing something wrong, abusive to his little brother, abusive to our dog, has seemingly no conscience whatsoever, no value on intelligence or morality, cocky, and repeatedly indicates that he wants to be with his mom over me... Which I would be TOTALLY fine with allowing if it weren't for the danger involved in her lifestyle, and the fact that she would let him drop school just as soon as it was legally ok for him to do so.

I feel like the boy needs a good trip to wood shed to be honest, but of cousre God-forbid I lay one finger on him or it would be DSS city. (Which is repeatedly used as a threat because I'm soooo abusive taking away video games and computer/phone priviledges.) I just feel like nothing I do matters. I take away priviledges, I've tried to talk to him until I'm blue in the face about being a good person and making the right decision, I've tried to show love even when he expresses that he doesn't like me and that he wants to be with his mom.

Its hard enough raising a teenager but when you are just fought on every level by a child's own mother its such an uphill battle that sometimes I just feel like giving up. Our personalities are soooooo different too which makes it even harder. He is one of those jocks that terrorized kids like me in high school. Our personalities are just completely opposite. I feel like a horrible person saying this, but I honestly don't like him. Its my job to love him and I always will, but I don't like this person who lives in my house and eats my food and treats everyone like crap most of the time, and has not even a slight shred of gratitude for the sacrifices I've made my whole life for him. He has a friggin' xbox 360 in his room! He has nice clothes. He has a home where people tell him they love him every day. I've tried so hard to be a good dad to this child. If I give him what he wants and let him live with his mom, I feel like I'm just consigning him to a life of drugs, dead end jobs, poverty, jail, or god knows what .... But the older he gets and the more it becomes obvious that the things I try to do just don't seem to make a difference. My words don't matter. Consequences don't matter. He does the bare minimum to get his stuff back and then sneaks until he gets caught doing something bad again.

I feel like just giving him to his mother some time, but doing so would probably mean I was a bad person.

Can anyone relate to this at all?

 

[NancyM]

Welcome Grayarea33
I think you will get a lot of responses soon enough. It would be better if you re post this in the correct thread only because not everyone will see it here in introductions. (because not everyone comes to intro)

Sorry your having such a tough time with your son. I'm not sure what to say though. It sounds a little to me that you are still angry with your wife and can't get past everything she says and does, I think it may be preventing from you getting close to your son.

I do know that if he were my child, I think I'd fight in court to have all contact with his mother cut off. (or limit it to supervised visits only) If she's really causing him to be so bad, than it should stop. You said that everything you do is wrong anyway in his opinion so why not go all the way. You will probably save his life in the long run, if she's really that bad than the court should be on your side.

It really isn't his fault in my opinion, try to remember that he has half of your genes in him too and he isn't really 100% like his mom. it sounds like you've already made your mind up that he is, and gave up on him and I think he knows that. I bet he really wants stability, trust and love from you but because you show disapprovement of him, he rebells and pushes your buttons by acting out :

QUOTE by Greyarea33: He is lazy, rude, a liar, a sneak, doesn't try in school, ungrateful, uncaring, has no regret or remorse when he is caught doing something wrong, abusive to his little brother, abusive to our dog, has seemingly no conscience whatsoever, no value on intelligence or morality, cocky, and repeatedly indicates that he wants to be with his mom over me... Which I would be TOTALLY fine with allowing if it weren't for the danger involved in her lifestyle, and the fact that she would let him drop school just as soon as it was legally ok for him to do so UNQUOTE

There's a lot going on here. I think counseling would help too.

 

[Dadu2004]

-Moved thread to young adult section.

 

[IADad]

It seems like you have about 3 options, give up, try to connect or try to jolt him into reality.

Okay, you're not going to give up, you wouldn't be writing if you were inclined to do so.

It seems like a big part of his problem is that he doesn't see himself as part of a community. He doesn't understand how the things he does (or doesn't do) affects others. So, it seems like the two ways to do this are through sending him off to a place wher his reliance on others is tested (i.e. a teen bootcamp, or one of those ranches, KWIM) where they will essentially dump him into situations he's not comfortable in, then help him dig out and he gain perspective etc. The other way is to try tto connect. Sit down at a nuetral location, just the two of you. Lay all the cards on the table, (i.e. you know he's not happy, you want him to succeed in life, find out what he wants, what he's passionate about, what his dreams are, then commit to helping him reach those goal and he commits to whatever parts get you there, and determine what you're each going to do if the other breaks part of their commitment. Now, that might lead you to counseling, sort of a we need someone nuetral here, "so you know I'm not trying to shove something down your throat...." Because I don't see you saying, he' let's go to counseling and him going along with it without some reason.

those are my thoughts.

Oh, and welcome, consider dropping back by the iintro thread to introduce yourelf, get to know us, and perhaps browse some other threads and share your experence as well. This place works because people give of their thoughts and experience.

 

[mentalmum]

I can relate to a lot of what you are saying, except that in my case my husband (child's biological father) is totally onside and we still have most of the issues you are describing. I don't have any advice to offer you, but I hear you and I understand what it's like to be in such a difficult situation.

 

[greyarea33]

Thanks for the response Nancy. I'll try to respond directly to your post.

Quote: "Sorry your having such a tough time with your son. I'm not sure what to say though. It sounds a little to me that you are still angry with your wife and can't get past everything she says and does, I think it may be preventing from you getting close to your son"

I wish I could point to anger at my ex-wife as the source of this problem. If so that would mean there was something I could personally do to correct the problem. Unfortunately my ex-wife is instigating this entire thing. She's deluded my son's opinion of reality, and convinced him that I am keeping him from her on purpose. (Even though I am following a legal court order where the court found her to be an unfit mother. Even though I'm following the advice of counselors, teachers, friends, family ...only trying to prevent my children from being in a dangerous and unstable environment.) I have rules and expectations at my house. He has no rules and no expectations at his house. His mom allows him to smoke, allows him to basically do just about whatever he wants. She has succeeded in alienating me from him in just about every way possible. Am I mad at her? Absolutely. But that isn't influencing my feelings towards my son in any way.

Quote: "I do know that if he were my child, I think I'd fight in court to have all contact with his mother cut off. (or limit it to supervised visits only) If she's really causing him to be so bad, than it should stop. You said that everything you do is wrong anyway in his opinion so why not go all the way. You will probably save his life in the long run, if she's really that bad than the court should be on your side."

The problem with this is that he is becoming unmanagable, uncontrollable, and unteachable. In a year or two he will be able to basically make the decision to go there anyway according to our lawyer. (As long as his mother keeps her nose clean.) He has shut himself in his room the entire week this week other than to go to school and come out for dinner. He has expressed that he will do anything in his power to escape this hell hole. (my home) He has said that he hates my mother for giving birth to me and that I'm no longer his son. We can't continue to live like this.

Quote" It really isn't his fault in my opinion, try to remember that he has half of your genes in him too and he isn't really 100% like his mom. it sounds like you've already made your mind up that he is, and gave up on him and I think he knows that. I bet he really wants stability, trust and love from you but because you show disapprovement of him, he rebells and pushes your buttons by acting out"

I agree that it isn't totally his fault. He has been through hell with his mother and feels the pain of years of rejection, and emotional abuse. (Including physical abuse when he was little by one of her boyfriends.) I haven't given up on him entirely, but I do feel like he's lost and I can't save him. He has no interest in counseling, no interest in any thing that comes out of my mouth, I've tried taking away priviledges and discipline which is entirely ineffective. I haven't shown disapprovement of him actually up until our big argument the other day. Up until that point, I've encouraged counseling, praised him when he does a good job on things, tried my absolute best to give him chance after chance when he would get in trouble at school/get bad grades etc... I have given him trust and he has abused it repeatedly. (Gets caught doing things he knows are against the rules repeatedly.) He has my love no matter what he does and he knows that, but I won't reward bad behavior. There are consequences in life for the things we do and I feel like its my job to make sure he understands thats. Unfortunately those consequences only occur in my house and he hates me for it.

 

[greyarea33]

Hi IADAD and thanks. I'll try to respond to your post in the way I did Nancy's.

Quote" It seems like you have about 3 options, give up, try to connect or try to jolt him into reality."

Yep. I know. Suggestions on how to jolt him in to reality? I've tried connecting for years and he has slipped further and further away from me no matter what I seem to try. This is Parental Alienation at its worst. (If you aren't familiar with that there is a great book called Divorce Poison that talks all about it. Very interesting.) I'm just not sure exactly what to do at this point. How do you get through to someone who has told you that they no longer consider themself your son and they now refer to you as "trash?" I'll have to look at my original post again... Can't remember if I told this forum what happened Sunday or not. Huge argument that has just about done our relationship in completely. Its not a matter of giving up on him entirely so much as it is ...cutting my losses at this point. If I allow him to continue this behavior it is hurting the other two younger children in our house. Its a never ending source of stress and a consuming source of pain and hurt from the things he says and does. I can fight with him for another year or two damaging our relationship irrepairably or I can give him what he wants and let him fall on his face at moms. Maybe that would be the jolt of reality he needs?


Quote:"It seems like a big part of his problem is that he doesn't see himself as part of a community. He doesn't understand how the things he does (or doesn't do) affects others. So, it seems like the two ways to do this are through sending him off to a place wher his reliance on others is tested (i.e. a teen bootcamp, or one of those ranches, KWIM) where they will essentially dump him into situations he's not comfortable in, then help him dig out and he gain perspective etc."

I'm looking in to this option to see if his Medicaid would cover something like that. If not there is no way my family could afford the huge cost that most of these entail.

Quote" The other way is to try tto connect. Sit down at a nuetral location, just the two of you. Lay all the cards on the table, (i.e. you know he's not happy, you want him to succeed in life, find out what he wants, what he's passionate about, what his dreams are, then commit to helping him reach those goal and he commits to whatever parts get you there, and determine what you're each going to do if the other breaks part of their commitment. Now, that might lead you to counseling, sort of a we need someone nuetral here, "so you know I'm not trying to shove something down your throat...." Because I don't see you saying, he' let's go to counseling and him going along with it without some reason."

I have tried these things numerous occasions. Problem number 1 is that he shuts down and shuts me out. He shuts his counselor out too. We have tried so hard to get this child to open up and be up front about things and the reaction you get is either stone silence or I really don't care. Always followed by " I just want to go live with mom for awhile." .. its exactly as you say ...he has never been in to the idea of counseling from the get go and communication with me is just not something he wants any part of. I'm oppressing his mother remember? I'm his enemy. I caused all of the problems in his life. I am the only person he has to answer to. I am the only one who poses the potential risk that he'll lose his ability to talk to his girlfriend during the week. (due to consequences ..losing priviledges etc) I'm the only one holding him accountable for his actions in school. I cramp his style because he can't beat the snot out of anyone he wants to at school without getting in trouble. School consequences like ISS or losing lunch don't phase him. I found out too that his mom allows him to chew tobacco and smoke because she'd feel like a hypocrite if she tried to stop him. Of COURSE there is no way to communicate with him! The differences between myself and his mother are just enormous!

those are my thoughts.

Quote: "Oh, and welcome, consider dropping back by the iintro thread to introduce yourelf, get to know us, and perhaps browse some other threads and share your experence as well. This place works because people give of their thoughts and experience."

Thanks again. Really appreciate the input and feedback.

 

[greyarea33]

I can relate to a lot of what you are saying, except that in my case my husband (child's biological father) is totally onside and we still have most of the issues you are describing. I don't have any advice to offer you, but I hear you and I understand what it's like to be in such a difficult situation.

Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes someone just understanding really helps. It isn't the most common situation in the world to be in a position like this. IN a lot of ways it just feels hopeless sometimes. I know no matter what I do or say or no matter how good of a parent I try to be ..I'm going to lose this child one way or another. The only question is how significant will the loss be. Will it be a life-long loss where he never wakes up and he goes to prison someday and hates me for the rest of his life? Or will it be a loss where his eyes open up someday and he realizes the truth about things and our relationship is somehow healed by time. I really hope its the last option. Either way, inside it is like I am almost grieving a death.

 

[NancyM]

I don't know what it's like to have a child like that, but I feel 14 yrs old is just to young to make certain decisions for himself, especially about living with an unfit parent.

On the other hand, and I'd like to be honest,

If YOU really don't 'like' him, I'm sure he knows that, and it would probably be just as bad and unhealthy for him to live with you, as it would for him to live with his mother.

This kid is also going through puberty, his hormones are raging all over the place on top of all this. I can't help but feel a little sorry for him.

I still think he needs heavy counseling and I don't understand why he has a choice about that, he's 14. If I were you, I'd force him to go, at least you can say you did that much...because I can almost gaurentee that once he lives with mother, he will be back and in worse condition than when he left you. Just because he goes to live with her, doesn't mean he'll be out of your life. It just means you'll be dealing with a very angry adult child that you won't be able to help at all.

I would get him all the help I could now, and I wouldn't give him any choices.

 

[babymaggie1]

I can also relate to what your saying. I frequently interact with many parents and all my friends are parents. This is not that uncommon.












Posted by babymaggie1

 

[teenage_parent]

wow... hmmm... i don't know if this will be much of a help.

i am going to look at this from the point of view of the son since i am still a teen-ager. no disrespect. i will just try to think the way he is thinking.

first, i know my parent didn't like me. they didn't say but i felt it and i was rebelious. i was like <I>'you don't like me, i don't like you to. it's not like a had a choice who to have as parents. you are more to blame for me being here.'</I> he feels you don't like him. not being liked by your own parent, so not cool.

two, you're always looking at things from you're POV, how about his? do you know how hard things are for him? you were never there. it's not your fault but it's not his either. at least you are independent, he is a minor. don't tell him you know how he feels or what he is going through because you don't. believe it or not, five years of age gap makes a difference, try a decade. he is a living in a different environment, one you are didn't go through so understand him. talk with him. reach out. talk with the mother. ask the judge. ask a psychologist. move hell and high water to help him out. you said the mother is not in her best, that only means he has no one else but you.

third, you take things away from him but what do you give him? punishment almost never works for us because the moment we know we can get around the punishment, what else is left for your to do? make the punishment worse, it will only make us do worse things. it becomes a cycle.

do you know his thoughts? what kind of a person he is? beyond the tobacco (maybe a joint), beyond the rebellion, beyond all the bad things you see, there's a human being there. there are music he listens to, things he like doing, food he loves to eat, places he likes going. do you know him? in knowing him, it will make it easier for you to like him. and when you like him, you will find it easier to relate to him.

i hope that helps.

 

[greyarea33]

Quote: "On the other hand, and I'd like to be honest,

If YOU really don't 'like' him, I'm sure he knows that, and it would probably be just as bad and unhealthy for him to live with you, as it would for him to live with his mother."

I half expected this kind of thing. Let me just clarify my original post here. I would never DREAM of communicating to my son that I don't like him! (Verbally or otherwise) I was posting some very adult feelings on a forum with other adults who I was hoping I might be able to relate to. Just because I don't approve of the way he conducts himself, that doesn't mean that I don't love him. I don't do drugs. I don't socialize or become romantically involved with criminals. I give my son rules and structure and I care about his education. I give him consequences for bad behavior. All of these things make me the enemy. His conduct is what I don't like. The way he treats other people is what I don't like. Please don't make such huge assumptions about a situation that you clearly don't understand.


Quote: "I still think he needs heavy counseling and I don't understand why he has a choice about that, he's 14."

Yes I know. I agree. His counselor does not agree. My son has no interest in counseling. When he has gone (which he has gone many times) he refuses to talk about anything. The counselor has advised that the process of counseling is ineffective if someone is not a willing participant in the process. After many sessions with my son, he has concluded that there is no benefit for him in going anymore. The door has been left open for my son to go back if he so chooses, but the counselor believes that it will only help him when and if he is willing to start opening up and trying to work through things.

Quote:" If I were you, I'd force him to go, at least you can say you did that much..(I can say that) because I can almost gaurentee that once he lives with mother, he will be back and in worse condition than when he left you.
(I agree though I'm not so certain he will be back if he goes.)

"Just because he goes to live with her, doesn't mean he'll be out of your life. It just means you'll be dealing with a very angry adult child that you won't be able to help at all."

Yes but the beauty of it is that perhaps if he spends some time with his mother and realizes that it isn't the paradise that he thinks it is, maybe ALL of his anger won't be completely directed at me anymore. Maybe he'll realize that the things I've been telling him all along are true. Even his own counselor has advised me that it might be in his benefit to experience for himself what he's been asking for. Sometimes the only way to teach someone who refuses to listen or even try to see reality is to give them what they want. There is no ideal solution here. We are in the process of meeting with our lawyer and trying to come up with a solution. If he does go we can draw up provisions in an order that would serve as protections (ie no criminal boyfriends allowed in the environment, drug testing at our request, etc) I'm not just going to ship him to his mom with nothing in place to ensure his safety.

Quote: "I would get him all the help I could now, and I wouldn't give him any choices." Thats what I've been doing for four years. Its not working.

 

[greyarea33]

Thanks for your thoughts teenage_parent. I was a teenage parent once too and I would have probably had some of the same thoughts you expressed. (Although I wouldn't have made so many assumptions.)

I have tried numerous times to connect to my son, relate to my son, be my son's friend... I'm a supportive parent. Any time he ever does something right I jump all over it and try to reward positive words, praise, even material things... I've written him letters trying to connect with him. I've encouraged him to write and draw to express himself. We listen to the music he wants to listen to in the car and I even like SOME of it. ha

Isn't it possible that someone posts problems that they are going through with their child in a forum and isn't telling the entire story? You don't have any idea what I've tried to do for my son, what I've sacrificed for him, the support and love I've shown him through the years, the times he and his brother would be crying their eyes because their mom rejected them yet again. I had to be there to pick up the pieces for them and tell them things will be ok. Wiping their tears and telling them that their mother loves them and is just going through a hard time! Do you have any idea how much personal strength it took to not tell them the truth? That their mother yet again chose to go be stoned with one of her biker gang boyfriends instead of getting them on her visitation time? But I didn't want to hurt THEM! So I defended her and tried to make them feel better about themselves repeatedly. You have no idea the hell we've been through. And now he chooses her over me because she bad mouths me repeatedly to him and he believes her. Go read Divorce Poison. That book explains this situation to a perfect tee! There are parents in this world who are so insecure about their own selves and the mistakes they've made, that they do everything in their power to turn a child against the other parent. Its called Parental Alienation. My son doesn't hate me because I'm not a loving/caring father. My son hates me because he has a Disneyland mom with no rules who brain washes him into hating me every single time she sees him! I don't know what else to say really. Thanks for trying to help. When you get older I hope you don't go through this as a parent. (and I hope your child doesn't go through it either.)

 

[orel]

i agree with babymaggie1

 

[singledad]

I would never DREAM of communicating to my son that I don't like him! (Verbally or otherwise)

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with teenage_parent here. Unless you are an accomplish con-man, which I doubt, your son probably knows. Not because you consciously tell or show him, but because it is impossible to hide all the subconscious cues.

I was posting some very adult feelings on a forum with other adults who I was hoping I might be able to relate to.

Do you talk down to your son like this, invalidating his view of the world just because he isn't an adult? Don't answer me... I just want you to think about it.

My son has no interest in counseling. When he has gone (which he has gone many times) he refuses to talk about anything. The counselor has advised that the process of counseling is ineffective if someone is not a willing participant in the process. After many sessions with my son, he has concluded that there is no benefit for him in going anymore. The door has been left open for my son to go back if he so chooses, but the counselor believes that it will only help him when and if he is willing to start opening up and trying to work through things.

OK, here I want to add my two cents. I can't pretend to know what is going on in your son's head, but this piece of information made me remember something that happened to me. I was a troubled teen too... when I was 17, I also had problems talking to a psychiatrist. All therapists aren't created equal - maybe someone else would be able to win his trust and get him to open up. Keep trying - it took 6 different therapists before we found someone I could relate to.

 

[IADad]

Greyarea - I sense a lot of frustration in your last post and defensiveness as if you feel you're being attacked. i don't think anyone wants to attack you. Remember we only know what's been posted. And you want us to provide you with answers, so we have to ask questions, we have to make suppositions. IF those aren't accurate or don't apply, then fine, disregard them. I don't think anyone is trying to blame you for doing anything wrong, just examining what some possibilities might be so maybe you'll find something your can use. So, consider re-reading some of the feedback, see if there's something you might have missed from the way you intend to be acting versus how your son perceives you to act. Maybe there's something there maybe there isn't.

Trust me, nobody here would have wasted their time writing responses if they just wanted to pick a fight with you. We all have our struggles. I think people are just offering up what they can come up with, okay?

 

[MomoJA]

I had typed up a response on a computer last night but for whatever reason, it wouldn't post. Anyway, I've since read a few other posts and I first want to say that I know you posted something in desperation and you've made yourself vulnerable, so it is easy to feel like you are being attacked. I really don't think anyone means to attack you.

I had said in my earlier post that that's the age that teachers joke that even their mothers don't love them. I know your situation is not the typical obnoxiousness of adolescence, though, and I'm sure that a lot of people in your situation feel the same as you do but aren't at a point when they are ready to admit it or they aren't reflective enough about their parenting to even recognize their feelings.They just react without analyzing. So you are ahead of the game in many ways because you recognize where you are and you are seeking help.

As for your son sensing that you don't love him, a lot of children believe that no matter what, so chances are your son would anyway, especially if he is rebellious and you are always correcting him. "Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. . . " It's typical teenage angst even when there's nothing behind it.

But what I wanted to say is that in my "expert" opinion (please read with an ironic tone) I believe that not only do children need limits when they are young, they crave them. When they are not given them, they keep pushing for them and become frightened and angry when they don't ever push against them. They stop trusting who ever is in charge of them or anybody in a position of authority. It sounds like your son had no limits. He felt he was in control as a child and that has made him angry, frightned, and distrustful of you.

I don't know how you can do it, but don't give up trying to break through his armor. It sounds like you are all he has. But also try to look for other people who might be able to be the one who gets through to him - a teacher, a coach, a neighbor.

I'd like to say this all more eloquently, but I have to run.

Good luck.

 

[NancyM]

third, you take things away from him but what do you give him? punishment almost never works for us because the moment we know we can get around the punishment, what else is left for your to do? make the punishment worse, it will only make us do worse things. it becomes a cycle.

do you know his thoughts? what kind of a person he is? beyond the tobacco (maybe a joint), beyond the rebellion, beyond all the bad things you see, there's a human being there. there are music he listens to, things he like doing, food he loves to eat, places he likes going. do you know him? in knowing him, it will make it easier for you to like him. and when you like him, you will find it easier to relate to him.

i hope that helps.

Very well put Teen age Parent. I too was wondering if the boy has any good qualities because all we heard are the bad parts of his personality.

 

[mentalmum]

Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes someone just understanding really helps. It isn't the most common situation in the world to be in a position like this. IN a lot of ways it just feels hopeless sometimes. I know no matter what I do or say or no matter how good of a parent I try to be ..I'm going to lose this child one way or another. The only question is how significant will the loss be. Will it be a life-long loss where he never wakes up and he goes to prison someday and hates me for the rest of his life? Or will it be a loss where his eyes open up someday and he realizes the truth about things and our relationship is somehow healed by time. I really hope its the last option. Either way, inside it is like I am almost grieving a death.

Again, I hear you. At present, my 15yo daughter is refusing to come home and staying at her boyfriend's house where there is an unstable environment in which the two of them can do as they like, pretty much. She is continuing to go to school...but also bullying her younger sister and verbally attacking her younger brother for being angry with her treatment of others around her. My husband and I, much as it grieves us, and believe me it does, are at the point where if she continues to refuse to come home we are going to find out how to put her into foster care. We cannot keep going the way we have been - we are at breaking point and, as you said in one of your posts, there are younger children to consider.

It's breaking my heart not to have her at home. But at the same time, the atmosphere at home has totally changed. The other children don't hide in their rooms now. They are more affectionate, less irritable, more chatty...the amount of tension that has just vanished with her absence is nothing short of astonishing.

But at the same time I want what's best for her. She doens't seem to learn from our discipline (a word which actually means teaching) so maybe it's time to take the hardest road of all and find her somewhere else to live. She is making her own decisions regardless of what we try and there are very few of them we agree with (smoking, having sex, jigging school...treating others with no respect) and I don't remember who it was but with your son, maybe it is time to cut your losses and focus on the other kids. Maybe it's time for him to learn the hard way that he had it good with you...and that may well take years and years. But maybe he's like my daughter and will only learn things the hardest way there is - by hitting rock bottom.

I know that you are like us and this is NOT what you want for your son. I also know that you are human, and there is only so much you can do.

I wish you all the best. Keep posting. There is support here.

 

[mentalmum]

I was wondering, also, is it worthwhile rewarding him in some way for achieveable good behaviour? I really don't know how you would go with this in your situation, but maybe it's worth a try? We were going to try with our daughter but it's a bit pointless since she won't come home...

Anyway, it would work something like this: You tell him the behaviour you want from him. Maybe it's to treaat others with respect, say. You be very, very specific about exactly what that means and how you will measure his success. You make it a short time frame - a week would be good, perhaps. If he slips, he gets a warning. Three warnings and he's blown it for that week. But if he doesn't blow it, he gets something he wants. Maybe that's some extra time with his mum. Maybe it's extra phone time or comuter time or really pretty much anything that works for him. It's not a good idea to promise rewards that are going to create problems for you - it has to be something you are willing to provide. A meal at Maccas with you and a friend of his choice? You would know better than I what might work for him.

I'm suggesting this because if taking privileges away isn't working, maybe he would respond better to the carrot rather than the stick. Again, I have doubts about the effectiveness of this with my daughter (she's the kind of kid who didn't care about reward charts etc when younger) but to look at it another way, what have you got to lose? You've tried so hard for so long already.

Hang in there mate. It's obvious you love your son and at some point that's all we have left to give them.