I recently read an article about some pit bulls killing a child....

[NinJaBob]

The child that was killed was 2 years old and walked unsupervised into a garage and was killed by 3 pit bulls owned by the childs grandfather.

I brought this up on another forum (not a parenting forum) that I frequent and have been vehemently attacked by pit bull owners.

Most blamed the owner of the pits stating that the dogs weren't trained correctly = I agree partially

None blame the dogs = I disagree

Some blame the child stating that the 2 year old provoked the dogs = They are probably right

Ok so here is my take on the situation. Pit bulls have the ability to kill old people and small children and have proven that in the wrong situation that they will do so. Since they have the ability but lack the mental prowess needed to determine when lethal force is necessary aren't you being reckless not only with the lives of your family but also with the safety of those in the community?

Biker gangs were mostly formed by veterans that were battle hardend in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. These men were taught to kill and lived wild dangerous lives that most of us can't even begin to understand. Then when the war was over they were told ok now go be accountants. They were warped by their experiences and had the mental and physical abilities bu needed the excitement that they received in war. Many of these men didn't know how to be normal again and looked fr that excitement. This can sort of be equated to even pit bulls that are traied to protect the family. This dog is trained to destroy anyone that messes with you or your stuff and probably has eveloped the desire to whoop up on intruders. You don't take a trained killer and make him a day care professional

One guy told me that his pit wouldn't even let anyone in the yard even if the dog knew the person. The dog would watch the kids play and he felt safe as long as the dog was watching the kids. Isn't it our responsibility to watch our own kids.

I guess it's personal preference. I don't want an animal that is likely to eat my children if they pull his tail. Of course the kid provoked the dog. When my kids were 2 they provoked me all the time. Heck my wife is 36 and she provokes me on a daily basis. Is the kid at fault here?

What are the laws in your city? Here if your dog attacks a burglar the dude can sue the crap out of you.

That's why I own a Pekineses/Pomeranian mix. If he decided to attack my kids before he was able to break the skin I would be all over him like Lindsey Lohan on a bottle of vodka.

If you break into my house and try to hurt my family the dog is the least of your worries. You really should beware of me.

 

[NinJaBob]

A guy pointed out that more Labs are responsible for attacks in this country than pit bulls and while I have found this same data I posted the following. Let me know what you think.

<I>"I would be interested to hear more about the statistics given here. I'm not saying that your wrong but statistics are not always the answer.

For example I once read an article that claimed that in a given community black people were responsible for more violent crime than any other race. The paper thereby concluded that this means that black people in this area are more likely to commit crime than any other race. What they didn't mention was that this particular community was populated mostly by black people. If only 2 white guys robbed a convenience store in that neighborhood but there are only 2 white guys in that neighborhood how does that skew the results? In reality if you pass a black guy on the street then a white guy who is more likely to rob you in that neighborhood?

Ok so that was a long way to go. All that I am saying is that if you give me some numbers I can skew them to say anything that you want. It would be helpful to know more about this data before I could consider it as legitimate.

I also found a study stating the same thing that you said but it was put out by pro pit bull lobbyists that didn't explain how the data was collected or analyzed. Maybe the data is right but there are professional analysts whos only job is to collect and manipulate data to meet their clients needs. Follow ANY political race to see this first hand or listen to any political radio show either liberal or conservative and this will be apparent."</I>

 

[bssage]

IMHO you have to take the totality of the situation.

IMO it is a mistake the will serve you badly to overgeneralize anything whether it be race or breed. I think in the right environment any breed of dog can be harmful and the same could be said for a man.

I would be more likely to blame the owner and parent for not making sure the children were in a safe environment.

The argument can be made saying accidents happen. And while that is true to some extent. A lot of things can be done to minimize risk. In this case I can think of a pretty big list. Training for the dog's, owners, and kids. a secure and restricted area for both kids and dogs.

Just IMHO

 

[NinJaBob]

IMHO you have to take the totality of the situation.

IMO it is a mistake the will serve you badly to overgeneralize anything whether it be race or breed. I think in the right environment any breed of dog can be harmful and the same could be said for a man.

I would be more likely to blame the owner and parent for not making sure the children were in a safe environment.

The argument can be made saying accidents happen. And while that is true to some extent. A lot of things can be done to minimize risk. In this case I can think of a pretty big list. Training for the dog's, owners, and kids. a secure and restricted area for both kids and dogs.

Just IMHO

I don't disagree with anything that you said.

 

[Jeremy+3]

In the UK most reported dog bites are from labradors.

No dogs are able to determine when to use large amounts of force.

If you walk through a cow field with a dog, the cows especially when they have young will trample the dog, are you going to blame the cows in that situation? Or the moronic owner.

If an idiot gets out of their car at a safari park and is eaten by a lion (has happened), are you going to go ahead and blame the lion for that as well?

The reason so many dogs are aggressive is because of the blame culture, I know people who own dogs and don't train them thoroughly because if the "dog attacks it aint my fault, just get it put to sleep".

Our neighbour lost her lower arm from a severe bite from a Pom, it doesn't matter how big a dog is, they can all inflict severe injury if given the chance.

If I leave our toddler with dogs and she ends up being attacked, it isn't her fault, and it isn't the dogs fault, it would be entirely my own fault. Children that age don't understand why leaving dogs alone is so important, they see them playing nicely, they don't realise that any dog is capable of massive force.

 

[NinJaBob]

agreed

 

[NinJaBob]

I guess what I would really like to say is that I read about this happening more than I should and something should be done. I don't have the answer but it should probably be given more attention and I do agree that it has to start with parental responsibility.

If I were a pit bull owner or the owner of a dog that was deemed vicious based on breed then I probably would take up the banner to put an end to this problem.

I have however chosen a dog from a rescue center because of the fact that he has a docile temperament. He doesn't work as head of security he is just a couch buddy. It works for us and him. Even so my children aren't left alone with him or at all for longer then it takes me to pee. I usually find that he is oblivious to the fact that I even got off the couch.

Anyway I hope that this tragedy never happens again but I fear it wont be long before some unlucky child is mauled or even killed by another pit. Regardless of who's fault it is it just should not happen. Then people will say that pits are the sweetest dogs ever and others will say that they should all be euthanized. I don't believe in either statement. It's just sad all the way around.

 

[mom2many]

I had a wiener dog that was more dangerous then the pit's in our neighborhood, or the one I found and kept until we found it's owner. I had more stitches because of that dang dog then any other animal I have owned since.

To the topic at hand, Pits are not more likely to injure or kill another person, but they are stronger then any other dog, so where a chihuahua might just cause you a few stitches and some pain but a pit will cause much more severe damage.

I believe that the owners of pits need to take greater precautions with protecting the people around them, not just for the people's sake but for the dogs also. I am tired of hearing about a pit being put down because some idiot did something stupid and got hurt and now the dog has to be put down.

I will come back...I need to go do something real quick! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bssage]

In the UK most reported dog bites are from labradors.

No dogs are able to determine when to use large amounts of force.

I have to disagree with this statement. I have always been a dog person and have had several different breeds over the years. If what you say were true the most puppy's mother's would snap their necks when the carried them back to their bed. I have had more labs than anything and can say in my experience they have incredible control over the amount of force in their bite. Chip my bud that passed last year would wear you out playing tug of war, Would snap a downed bird's neck, and could pick up a water balloon returning it to DS without breaking it.

That was not something we trained him to do. They know how hard they are biting or when. The problem IMHO is when we either give them or train them with bad information.

 

[Antoinette]

i have a Lab, a Chihuahua cross and a Jack Russell. David has a pit bull... i love his dog a lot, he is a beautiful dog, very gentle and loving and has a lot of patience with Felix... so saying that i would NEVER leave Felix in the same room with him unsupervised. nor would i let him play with the dog without me there. same goes for the Jack Russell and the Chihuahua.

the only one i would perhaps bend that rule for would be the Lab who btw is the only one of the 4 who has ever bitten Felix and it was deserved. Felix ran up to him and bit his foot very hard (just after cutting some teeth) and Lucky yipped and as a reflex reaction he turned around and nipped at Felix's hand. he didn't even break the skin (Felix did on his foot though) so i think if he had done that to Dozer (pit) then there would have been serious differences in the reaction... which is why i am a bit anti pit bull
Felix got in trouble when Lucky bit him, not the other way around just incase any one was curious

 

[Nadhima]

Just a thought....and I'm sure this is for liability insurance, but up our way in New England the campgrounds in the area won't allow pit bulls, doberman's, rotwielers and any mix of the above...there were another few but I can't remember them now.

I thought it was rather interesting.

 

[xox.ilu.xox]

My feeling is no matter what the breed, a child should NEVER be left alone with a dog...ever! We have a husky wolf x. shes 3/4 husky and a 1/4 timberwolf. and the greatest dog i have ever had. hayleigh uses her like a couch lol. We were very strict with her from day 1 and she knows who is alpha in our house, and it definately isnt her. Pitty's get a bad rep because of how 3/4 of the pitbull owning population train their dogs to attack.

Just to put it into perspective. My mom and dads small mixed dog was vicously mauled and killed by a pure black lab in jan 2009. And it was completely and totally unprovoked. It just goes to show that every dog is capable of hurting another animal or a person. I personally just think that pitties, dobermans, rotties etc get the bad rap because they are the most publicized dog attacks. Personally I am a fan of pit bulls. Just IMHO.

 

[Dale Simmons]

While I can't comment on some of the posts above, I do know that a lot of "unprovoked" attacks are in fact provoked. Like the ones started after a kid grabs a dog's private parts, etc.
As the child is often clueless as to what is going on, he/she is likely to say there was no provocation.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

in all these cases i'm dead sure there was neglect or dog abuse. of course, when your child dies, who would say -- oh we treated our dog not so well. but it is the fact.
we have a rotveiler and a staffie. i never leave kids unsupervised with dogs, but Marvin can handle them pretty well when we're going walkies.

 

[Xero]

I'll never forget the day when I was 18 and working at Wal-Mart that a couple came in with a little baby whose face was like completely destroyed. It was just awful to look at. Somebody asked them about it and were told that the family dog (who happened to be a pit bull) was napping next to the baby and suddenly just mauled him. I don't know if anything happened, but the baby was so little I couldn't see it grabbing anything on the dog or antagonizing it. He wasn't at the right age yet. The parents made it sound like the baby was sleeping, but I guess really I don't know. Either way, it was sooooo sad, I was horrified.

Pit bulls CAN be trained to be loving, wonderful family pets, BUT they were originally bred to be aggressive, fighting dogs. Its what they were made for. I would personally never own a potentially aggressive dog, not even if I didn't have children. I just don't need the worry in my life. If you do have kids, it just seems risky to me. I'm not saying that every pit bull is likely to eventually hurt someone, but the statistics are so high that to me it feels like asking for trouble.

Don't get me wrong though, I see pit bulls at work all the time and they really are some of the sweetest most adorable dogs ever. They're one of my favorites to come in contact with. I'm just too nervous about anything happening to my kid, so I'd probably get a different breed before I would get a pit bull, that's all I'm saying. I've just heard too many things for me to be comfortable having one around my family. Just being honest.

 

[xox.ilu.xox]

I totally and completely agree with you Xero

 

[Antoinette]

that is exactly what i think about the breed it isn't that i don't like them or that i have anything in particular that i don't like about them but they are fighting dogs and it just isn't worth the risk in my opinion

 

[superman]

this topic pisses me off immensly. pitbull breeding is banned here in toronto where i used 2 live. ive owned three pitbulls in my life and all have been excellent dogs. they are fighting dogs. this means that through extensive breeding history they have agression and defense in their genetics. every physical aspect of the dog is related to fighting, its their nature. dogs are primitive by nature as is every other animal. this means that dogs of any kind, and esp. a pitbull should be supervised. i have a 6 year old pitbull who cant be let off the leash b/c we live in a rural area with many wild animals out n about who he will attack.

bottom line, owners of pitbulls dont do research into the behaviour, temperment &amp; history of the breed. this causes ignorance when it comes to raisin this breed of dog. not just nyone can own a pitty, they are very strong willed. sorry dogs dont rationalise as great as humans, theyre not that advanced. people are ultimately responsible for their dogs behaviour.

 

[Jeremy+3]

The thing is though, any dog of european decent was bred purely for fighting and hunting, yet loads of people's wont own a pitbull as it was bred for fighting, yet happily have other european breeds.

 

[Dadu2004]

Here's my thing...yeah, people will say "it's all in how you train them", blah blah blah. Some animals are more prone to violence than others. It's a gamble.

Think of it this way...when you go to the Casino, you have a better chance of winning money if you play BlackJack over playing the slots. The probability is just higher that you'll hit because of the nature of the game.

Same can be applied to animals. Because of a certain breed, you have a higher chance of "winning" that a dog will be more violent. It's just in their nature. I will never own a breed that's known to be prone to violence. I'll stick to my little 8 pound mini-dog.