Is "under God" in the American Pledge of Allegiance appropriate?...

[NancyM]

How ever, I think it should be mandatory that the pledge remain taught in schools, and that every american citizen should be albe to say it at any time! The pledge isn't about politics or religion, it's about patriotism... Which IMO is something that people are starting to forget the meaning of patriotism. You dont have to like the politics, religion, people, economy to still love your country... I'm sorry, but I am not going to debate this paragraph with some one who does not live in the U.S.A. cuz I can see how people that dont live here can pick what I just said apart, but I think loving this country is part of what makes it so great!

If you have mixed feelings about our country and what the flag or the pledge stand for, go and visit with a WWII vet, a vietnam vet, a desert storm vet, or even a vet from our current war. And see if they turn there back to the flag during the pledge of alegence, see if they mumble differnt words during it, or see if they try and pick it apart.

I'm in agreence with you about the pledge DFW, I'm proud to say it and when I do I actually mean what I say. As far as "Under God " goes another beauty about being an American is that we have the right NOT to say the pledge if we so choose, and the right NOT to say Under God if we don't want to. It's called freedom and that is what America represents.

Nicholas I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that I do find your comment quite offensive. No we're not a perfect country but either is Canada and believe it or not, Most Americans DO understand our country that's why we stay here, and we also understand that some countries don't like us and since we're being honest here, I can't say many of us care. We laugh at other countries policies just like they laugh at us, it's just how it goes.

Speaking for myself, No matter what part of the world I visit, I just can't wait to come "home" to the good ol US of A. Aside from, perhaps other places having some beautiful cities, countrysides, or interesting hystorical back ground I haven't found any place better than America.

Yeah I guess you can say I'm a bit patriotic, and proud of it.

 

[Xero]

I think Americans might understand their country a lot better if they'd start listening to how they are perceived by the people in other countries.

What is there to understand about our country, that you think we Americans don't understand exactly? Your statement doesn't make any sense to me. What on earth makes you think that other countries understand America better than Americans? That's like me saying "if only Canadians understood Canada as well as Americans do" lol.

Our country has flaws, just like any other (I sure don't think Canada is all that great compared to America, but you don't see me bashing), but most of those problems are not within our control as Americans. The government needs to make changes, and there's only so much we can do.

 

[singledad]

It's not that I dont like outsided opinion on the subject, but country patriotism is best understood by those that live in that country. I'm not saying that only americans are patriotic, I'm just saying that when people from another country are picking the American pledge apart it's very literal and has not heart in it. I know that may not make any sense, but that is what I believe is partially wrong with our country. Is people are taking the heart out of everything and making it how it is supposed to look on paper and not how it makes you feel. Like I said, some one from another country could easily take what I said and tear it down and disprove what I said, but there has to be heart and a sense of pride in it or else ya, the pledge is redundant and so on and so on. That is probably my problem with the world today, is that people can't handle things like they used to, and can't do what I call "man up". It all has to be PC and in such literal terms. I didn't mean to be a butt about it when I said the "no debate with people from other countries", I guess I just dont like people debating our home status when they dont quite get it. Then again, I feel that many Americans dont really get it either anymore......

Thanks for explaining, and no hard feelings

I guess it would be just as hard for someone who grew up in America to understand why I am so averse to being told what I must like or dislike, who I must respect, and what I am allowed to have an opinion on or not...

I love my country too, warts and all (and it has a lot of warts!), so in a sense I can understand where you come from. I guess its just the matter of being taught to love your country before you are mature enough to understand what its about, that we will have to agree to disagree about.

But then - I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone always agreed with me either...

 

[MomoJA]

What is there to understand about our country, that you think we Americans don't understand exactly? Your statement doesn't make any sense to me. What on earth makes you think that other countries understand America better than Americans? That's like me saying "if only Canadians understood Canada as well as Americans do" lol.

Our country has flaws, just like any other (I sure don't think Canada is all that great compared to America, but you don't see me bashing), but most of those problems are not within our control as Americans. The government needs to make changes, and there's only so much we can do.

This is a common attitude around the world. It is amazing how many non Americans have all sorts of opinions about the evils of America but when you start discussing their own countries, they know little or get so defensive they begin to spit and sputter. I don't think it is the opinion of the majority, or I hope not because then I'd have to wonder about the intelligence of a whole lot of people because I've found the most vocal of these generally haven't really thought about what they are saying. They just tow the party line, so to speak. It's the PC stance and they follow group think. The people who think for themselves have complaints about America, but they don't think their countries are perfect either and they would never think that they know better about America than "Americans."

For example, one stupid fellow I know, an Australian guy, during an issue with North Korea several years ago was having an argument with a another couple of Australians about America this and America that vs. North Korea this and North Korea that. America couldn't get this right, but look at North Korea . . . America was in the wrong for whatever it was. The other Australians asked him if he'd rather live in America or North Korea, and he adamantly insisted he'd rather live North Korea.

I've lived around the world and worked and partied with people from every English-speaking country and many non English-speaking countries. I love those people and I love their countries, though there are tons of things wrong with those countries. But I love America. Most Americans, and non-Americans for that matter, have no idea how good they've got it.

It is interesting, though, how you view America from the outside. Before I returned, I had developed a paranoia about my child being kidnapped. I was afraid to bring my Black husband and daughter home. I thought we would be limitd to the places we could travel without being in danger of being shot. I worried about being gunned down at school. There were so many misconceptions about America that even as an American I bought into. It is something that happens with from a distance, so you can't always blame people for what they think about us.

 

[parentastic]

What is there to understand about our country, that you think we Americans don't understand exactly? Your statement doesn't make any sense to me. What on earth makes you think that other countries understand America better than Americans?

When children are born into the world, they are egocentric and they can only understand the world through their own perspective. This is perfectly normal, as the brain takes time to learn that other people can have a different perspective on the same reality.
A part of our job, as parents and educators, is to teach them <I>perspective taking</I>, the ability to project yourself into someone else's shoes and see the reality through their eyes, in order to take their perspective into account before acting.

This is what I said about Americans:

I think Americans might understand their country a lot better if they'd start listening to how they are perceived by the people in other countries.

There is nothing insulting in there. There is also nothing about other countries being any better or worst.
What I said is simple: we get a better understanding of ourselves when we discover the value of listening to how we are perceived; when we see the value of getting someone else's reality and integrate it with our own.
Americans are surprisingly unwilling to do this; which IMO is related to the strong, but often blind patriotism. There are countless examples I could use, but I was responding mostly to DFWRusty, when he was saying that:

I didn't mean to be a butt about it when I said the "no debate with people from other countries", I guess I just dont like people debating our home status when they dont quite get it.

The very fact that it feels so shocking to some of you that I suggest Americans would understand their country better if they'd listen to the external world already speaks volumes, IMO.
And Canada is no better than USA these days; the difference is that most Canadians are aware of it... Which means we have even less excuses than Americans for letting it happen. But that's another topic

 

[Xero]

If that is the case, Parentastic, then the same could be said about any other people in any other country. Why pick America specifically?

 

[parentastic]

Any country would benefit from listening to how they are perceived, Xero.
But Americans are especially closed to this idea.
Most industrialized country do, already. Not USA. My haunch is that it is directly related to patriotism; that it blinds people to open their mind to listen to their own flaws.
Also, very few countries have as much powerful influence - both economically and military - on other countries and on the world, nor openly says they are trying to "police" the world, than USA. It stands to reason that with such influence &amp; power comes a responsibility to listen.
Many country could benefit from listening to how they are perceived, but few are impacting the world enough to get noticed.

Finally, one last reason: the title of this thread is: "Is "under God" in the American Pledge of Allegiance appropriate". I was responding to the thead topic, which is about America.

 

[Xero]

You're still singling out America. Fact is, we're all human. You're grouping all American's together as one. I thought that you weren't big on stereotypes? And no offense, but what you said has nothing to do with the words "under God" in the pledge. Just America, which is pretty general if you ask me and kind of stretch.

I see where you're coming from, yes any country and it's people would benefit from listening to what other people think about them. It's a good thing. However, I am still lost as to why you are singling out America. You clearly aren't a big fan of America.

 

[NancyM]

When children are born into the world, they are egocentric and they can only understand the world through their own perspective. This is perfectly normal, as the brain takes time to learn that other people can have a different perspective on the same reality.
A part of our job, as parents and educators, is to teach them <I>perspective taking</I>, the ability to project yourself into someone else's shoes and see the reality through their eyes, in order to take their perspective into account before acting.

What makes you think American parents don't teach our children about perspective taking. I call it compassion , consideration, respect, and empathy for others, of course we teach our children that, it's a very basic human need and every good parent teaches that no matter what country.

Quote: This is what I said about Americans:"Unquote

OH really by whom??? Perhaps it's what your reading in your own countries news paper which can tell you anything they want and apparently you'd believe it.

Quote : "There is nothing insulting in there. There is also nothing about other countries being any better or worst.
What I said is simple: we get a better understanding of ourselves when we discover the value of listening to how we are perceived; when we see the value of getting someone else's reality and integrate it with our own."UnQuote

This statement is true but that's not what you said ...and I believe we all understood you original implication.

Quote: "Americans are surprisingly unwilling to do this; which IMO is related to the strong, but often blind patriotism. There are countless examples I could use, but I was responding mostly to DFWRusty, when he was saying that"UnQuote

Nicholas your statement sounds ignorant here really. So much so I was intending to ignore it, but I'm thinking maybe I can do you a favor by explaining where you've mistaken.

It's not patriotism that blinds people, it's ignorance and narow mindedness something like you're exhibiting. If you don't have it, it's impossible for you to understand but patriotism makes you strong as an individual and as a nation. And I'm pretty sure that's what other countries don't like about us!

And...Americans are perfectly aware how some other countries perceive us And as I said before why should we care. Do you think we have nothing better to do in our lives than to ponder about how other countries perceive us.
Other countries don't know me or my family so how can they perceive me in a negative way and why should I let that impact my life. Do you actually care how other countries perceive you?? Tell me how you deal with it?

Quote:" The very fact that it feels so shocking to some of you that I suggest Americans would understand their country better if they'd listen to the external world already speaks volumes, IMO"UnQuote

We're really not shocked at all, but YOU insist that we are. It's YOU who can't understand us, or our values and beliefs that has you all mixed up. Maybe you should practice that 'Perspective Taking' you preached about on yourself for a change, Americans see your kind of attitude all the time, we're a country of immigrants and we're surrounded by plenty of foreigners including Canadians, believe me Nick We heard it all and we've learned to tolerate it, it's ignorant like prejudice...and to some degree I think it's envy.

Quote"And Canada is no better than USA these days; the difference is that most Canadians are aware of it... Which means we have even less excuses than Americans for letting it happen. But that's another topic

What do you want us to do..apologize because our country lives differently than you or them or who ever it is who is hating us so?? REALLY what do you think we Americans should do about that? Should we just halt and think gee we're so bad for being Americans, we should stop and live like other countries because <I>they say</I> our ideals are not as good as theirs.

We really don't care what they think about us, Nicholas because they don't live our lives, it's their problem if they're loose sleep over disliking Americans not ours. Honestly.

 

[NancyM]

ooops I meant to multi quote the above post hope you can understand it.

 

[parentastic]

Hello NancyM,

Thank you for your answer and for trusting me enough to want to discuss it with me. I appreciate it, and I mean it.
It's very difficult to discuss this issue as I feel I am waking on eggshells, tip-toeing into a mine field, as each different response is likely to provoke a very strong feelings. Yet, truly, I am not trying to insult anyone.

So I am wondering: is there a way that this topic can be discussed, in an open and honest way? And more to the point, what can I do, if I disagree with what both you and Xero said, to debate it without offending you? I both like you very much, from many exchanges we had in this forum in the past months. No matter how delicately I can put it, or how careful I am, I am not certain that it is even possible for me to suggest USA has weaknesses, at this point, without triggering such a resistance.

Take for example, this:

What makes you think American parents don't teach our children about perspective taking. I call it compassion , consideration, respect, and empathy for others, of course we teach our children that, it's a very basic human need and every good parent teaches that no matter what country.

Well, please re-read what I wrote down.. in <I>no way</I> did I <I>ever</I> implied that Americans do not teach perspective taking to their kids
Seriously. I simply made a comparison between the importance of teaching a child the importance of developing the ability to take others point of view into account and I compared that to the 2-3 posters before who said they did not see why they should care about what other countries think of them. I also said that this is good for any countries.
Americans teach this skill to their kids, just like any other parents. It's part of growing up, of maturing.
I am simply saying that America - and believe me, Canada is just as bad - should mature and grow up, and that a part of that is to take what others around you think of you into account.

Now, the problem is, I have a LOT of examples to draw from, but if I start naming them here, it's going to feel like I am doing some USA bashing, and really I don't want to do this. So, perhaps I can respond to your post by taking my own country as an example: I assure you that I do not hold Canada in very high esteem at this point on many issues, there are big weaknesses in Canada and some are similar to what I see with USA.

For instance, take the issue of the Canadian Tar Sands in Alberta.
The VAST MAJORITY of the planet; nearly every single industrialized country in the world, and most of the planet's inhabitants all agree that this is terrible; that it is the #1 polluter on the planet, that it's going to impact on everyone's ability to live on the planet as it is contaminating vast areas of water all the way down to the subterranean lakes, and eradicating bio diversity at a very alarming rate.
Yet do we listen? Nope. Canada went forward with his huge tar sands programs, voided their own Kyoto commitment, received the lemon prize at the next environmental convention and basically took a life changing, planet-size decision all on its own, without even caring for what their neighbor could think of it.
I am not proud of this. In fact, I am ashamed of it. There is no way I can feel patriotic about Canada when I look at this.
Yet I think it is healthy at least to be able to take that hard look and say, hell, when you take such a huge decision, when it impacts so many lives, we should have listened to what other country thinks of us.

Perhaps it's what your reading in your own countries news paper which can tell you anything they want and apparently you'd believe it.

It really isn't that simple.
I am saying that as a citizen of a country, you can only truly understand your own international politics when you read the newspaper of the rest of the world.
An invading country will always present their conquest in a way that looks nice and polished; if you want the truth, you need BOTH to read what is written inside, AND outside your country, about your country.
This is true for ANY and ALL countries in the world.

It's not patriotism that blinds people, it's ignorance and narrow mindedness

To be more precise, what blinds people is the lack of critical thinking.
Ignorance isn't bad - nobody can know everything - unless you refuse to learn. Open mindedness is, I agree, very important.
Patriotism, when it is the result of observing and understanding your countries decisions and approving them, is a great thing. When it <I>prevents you</I> from taking that hard look at your country's decision, then it <I>causes</I> narrow-mindedness and lack of critical thinking.

Am I narrow minded? It is certainly possible, as I am far from perfect.
But if you want to state this, I would suggest you offer some examples.
If anyone who says "USA is unwilling to listen to what other countries think of them" is narrow minded, it means that there are at least one or two billions of people narrow minded. Surely you aren't suggesting this?

Now, the fact that patriotism can <I>also </I>make you strong as an individual and as a nation, I do not deny. I perfectly agree, in fact.
But that's not what is in question here.

Other countries don't know me or my family so how can they perceive me in a negative way and why should I let that impact my life.

Let me be crystal clear.
Nobody cares specifically about you or your family in the rest of the world, Nancy. No offense, really! It's not about you as a single American, or what you think, or do in your family. It's about what your country is doing to the rest of the world, including millions of other families, so that you can continue your own standard of living (and mine, in Canada, too, by the way).

Americans are perfectly aware how some other countries perceive us And as I said before why should we care?

Are you seriously asking?
Seriously?

We really don't care what they think about us, Nicholas because they don't live our lives, it's their problem if they're loose sleep over disliking Americans not ours.

NancyM, with all due respect, when you invade a country and kill over 2 millions of its citizens, you can hardly say it's their problem if they loose sleep over disliking Americans. How about loosing their houses, their children, their families, their lives?
Enough said.

 

[NancyM]

Your welcome Nicolas, and just for the record, I not trusting you, and I'm not the one who started this, you did. I DON'T want to discuss it at all, I'm just clarifying, and correcting you on the parts you got wrong, and don't understand about Americans.

and, I don't think we can be more honest and open however, you keep saying your not trying to insult Americans, but you continue to do so.

And I keep telling you that you notions and conclusions are incorrect about us, but you don't want to learn from me. You'd rather 'teach' me that Americans are disliked throughout the world, and I guess you expected me (and the Americans here) to jump back with shock. Weather you like it or not, WE DO know that some other countries don't approve of our nations policies and practices. America is a country full of immigrants and we're confronted with this garbage day in and day out ... And again, speaking only for myself here, my answer to that is " Too Bad for them". And NO, I will not loose sleep over it!

Yes I'm totally serious. Maybe part of the problem is that people like you, and these people you talk about who hate us, just don't want to accept the way Americans live. Well... What can I say to that Nick ?? What?? I think you actually expect us to conform to them is that it? lol REALLY??

I'm beginning to wonder why it's so important to you to make sure we know what <I>you think</I> the rest of the world thinks about us.

Aside from being completely arrogant, and disrespectful, and excuse me but, ignorant in this area. You seem animate about shoving this down our throats. I can't help but wonder, was this your original agenda when you joined the forum?

And please TRY to keep in mind, that our country was brutally attacked on our own land and 4,000 innocent people, just going about their daily routines were viciously wipped off the face of the earth for no reason at all. (Two people I knew personally) And guess what they had family, and loved ones too. Do you remember any of this 9-11-01? So, Please forgive me for not giving a damn what the rest of the world thinks of us.

But, I think instead Nicholas, you'll choose to blame us for that too.

You've made up you mind it seems and it's your prerogative but you can't expect the American's on this board to sit quietly while you speak untruthful and disrespectfully about us.

 

[parentastic]

That's like me saying "if only Canadians understood Canada as well as Americans do" lol.

Why not?
I am certain Canadian can gain significant knowledge about their countries by listening to how they are perceived by Americans.
What's wrong with that?

Our country has flaws, just like any other (I sure don't think Canada is all that great compared to America, but you don't see me bashing),

I think I have made quite clear in my previous few posts that I don't see Canada as any better than America on many regards.

but most of those problems are not within our control as Americans. The government needs to make changes, and there's only so much we can do.

Isn't the government supposed to be by the people, of the people and for the people? Believe me, I really <I>do</I> understand what you are saying. I feel powerless as a Canadian with a PM I didn't vote for and who is destroying anything I have stand for as a Canadian. It's hard. But isn't the first step to at least agree that it's necessary to see this, to acknowledge it? And that how other countries sees you is a good indicator of that?

I guess its just the matter of being taught to love your country before you are mature enough to understand what its about, that we will have to agree to disagree about.

This is <I>exactly</I> how I feel about patriotism, too. Thank you for writing this, singledad! And just like you, I am perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree about this.

The people who think for themselves have complaints about America, but they don't think their countries are perfect either and they would never think that they know better about America than "Americans."

I totally agree with you, MomoJA, on this.
And it's not about someone outside knowing better about America than Americans. It's about people outside a country knowing a different side of said country than the people inside, which is why it's so important to stay open to it, IMO.

Most Americans, and non-Americans for that matter, have no idea how good they've got it.

Totally agreed.

You're still singling out America. Fact is, we're all human. You're grouping all American's together as one. I thought that you weren't big on stereotypes?

This is a very good argument, Xero. I apologize if I have given the impression that I am generalizing and implying something about everyone. I was speaking as a country, compassing values and attitudes, and when I think of it, yeah, it's not right to throw everyone in the same bag.
One of my very best closest friend lives in New Mexico in USA, and comes here for a couple months every summer; she is very dear to my heart. I think some Americans are great, amazing people for whom I have huge respect.
So thank you for pointing this out. :embarrassed:

And no offense, but what you said has nothing to do with the words "under God" in the pledge. Just America, which is pretty general if you ask me and kind of stretch.

I said plenty about the "under god" part in the first few pages of this thread; then the topic moved toward American Patriotism and I responded to this. Let's stay in good faith here, okay? I am responding to a thread about the <I>American pledge</I>, to some posters who got angry at outsiders posting their feelings and views about the <I>American pledge and American Patriotism</I>, that according to them, we simply cannot understand and should not comment on.
So yeah, it makes sense that I am talking about America, isn't it?

I see where you're coming from, yes any country and it's people would benefit from listening to what other people think about them. It's a good thing. However, I am still lost as to why you are singling out America.

Thank for understanding what I was trying to convey. As for singling out America - I am genuinely asking: is it me who is "singling out" America, or is it you who are very sensitive about the topic? Perhaps a bit of both. I am certainly not a fan of USA these days, or Canada for that matter either. No hard feelings, I hope.

 

[parentastic]

Your welcome Nicolas, and just for the record, I not trusting you

Duly noted. Apologies for assuming then.

and I'm not the one who started this, you did.

The thread was started on the <I>debate</I> forum. It wasn't started by <I>either you nor I</I>. If you can't stand to see opinions different than your own on a debating forum about a highly controversial topic related to religion, patriotism and politics, then don't read the debate forum.

I DON'T want to discuss it at all, I'm just clarifying, and correcting you on the parts you got wrong, and don't understand about Americans.
(...) Aside from being completely arrogant, and disrespectful, and excuse me but, ignorant in this area...

So your plan is to tell me I am wrong about what I may think about Americans by insulting me on a public forum?

you keep saying your not trying to insult Americans, but you continue to do so.

How so?
Could you provide an example? A quote?
What did I say that was insulting to Americans, please?

And I keep telling you that you notions and conclusions are incorrect about us, but you don't want to learn from me.

So far you have provided me with insults, called me names, and told me I am insulting Americans. You also told me you do not care about what anyone else in the world may think of you (even though this is not about you personally), which was exactly my point. I am still waiting for the part where you are actually providing me with something to learn?

You'd rather 'teach' me that Americans are disliked throughout the world,

I said that Americans would learn a lot from listening to what other countries think about America.
YOU are the one who implied it had to all be negative and hateful.
USA certainly causes a lot of mixed feelings around the world. Some are really bad, but not all of it.

and I guess you expected me (and the Americans here) to jump back with shock.

I'd rather say I was expecting a debate about the <I>why</I>.
Apparently, it seems to be taboo to ask the question.

WE DO know that some other countries don't approve of our nations policies and practices.

As Xero pointed out, it's not right to put all Americans in the same bag, and I should not have done it. So shouldn't you, either.
I know MANY Americans who do not approve of these policies either.

Maybe part of the problem is that people like you, and these people you talk about who hate us...

I do not hate you, NancyM. Nor your neighbor, nor any fellow American in particular, depite what you think.
That hate, it's a choice you take to see it where it is not, at least as far as I am concerned. I can't speak for the world out there; I don't know what they think exactly, and I don't think it is possible to qualify it with a single word like "hate" and stick that label to billions of people. All I said was that it is worth listening to it and trying to understand it, and take it into account- whatever complex and diverse this "it" is.

Can one disagree with US policies without words like "hate" and "insult" being automatically used? The whole point of <I>listening to others </I>is to try to understand what is going on, so that a true dialog can be established.
America has done some great, awesome things. And some terrible things, too. The way you are reacting to my posts, right here, right in this forum, it's an exact replica of what I am talking about.
Can you stop for a few seconds, take a deep breath and see that I am not trying to hate anyone? That I speak here out of a desire of <I>mutual</I> respect, a desire for <I>understanding</I> and <I>mutual listening?</I>
Why do you so desire to see this as a manifestation of hate?

I can't help but wonder, was this your original agenda when you joined the forum?

Really? After 300+ posts over several months, 95% of them helping other parents with difficult problems with child rearing, using many hours of my free time, freely, to help people, and THAT'S how you interpret my posts on a <I>debating</I> forum about a topic <I>I did not chose</I>? With an average of half an hour per post, your theory is that I have spent more than 150 hours of my time - the equivalent of 4 weeks of full time job - posting on this forum so that I could do... what exactly?
I invite you to reflect on why you take my posts so personally?

You've made up you mind it seems and it's your prerogative

When you can write to me some facts, and tell them to me respectfully and without name calling, Nancy, I'll be more than happy to listen.

 

[Xero]

I think you're getting a little too worked up, Parentastic. Yes obviously we are a little sensitive about the things you are saying, considering they are all about "Americans", and we are ourselves Americans. Especially considering the statement about invading countries, killing people, taking homes... Sorry, I never did any of that. I really think you need to stop attacking us.

 

[parentastic]

I think you're getting a little too worked up, Parentastic. Yes obviously we are a little sensitive about the things you are saying, considering they are all about "Americans", and we are ourselves Americans. Especially considering the statement about invading countries, killing people, taking homes... Sorry, I never did any of that. I really think you need to stop attacking us.

*sigh* it's very possible, Xero. I must be sensitive about this, too.
I am sorry if you feel like I am attacking anyone. This has never been my intent.

Let me extend an honest olive branch and leave it at that, then, in this topic. I am not here to hurt anyone.

Peace.

 

[SuapaJulia]

The words under god in the pledge of allegiance came from Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Because of this historical value and in honor of all those who fought I do think it is appropriate!

 

[malevolent]

It is inappropriate, because not everyone in this country is "under god" and so it does not represent the entire population, right?

On the other hand, it doesn't hurt anything and I don't really care if people say it.

 

[DFWRusty]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't read parentastics last couple posts entirely (too long), how ever I will touch on what I did read and percieve out of it.

Part of me thinks, if people have such a bad perception of the U.S.A. then why do we have more cultural diversity than anywhere else in the world? Why is it that America has more people coming to this country every day than leaving it? I'm serious, why aren't they going to Canada, japan, britain, germany, or the south pole for all I care? I am serious, I love it that people talk about how bad America is and how bad of shape we are in and that our military is trying to be the world police, yet everywhere you go you see a cultural diversity and it doesn't look like the new members of this great nation are buying a one way ticket out of here! America isn't perfect, but it is the true "land of the free", maybe you dont understand us and maybe you think you percieve us better than we under stand ourselves, but I disagree. We are a nation of people that may not always seem great, but we do what we can to help other nations in their times of need, how many other countries do you see doing that, were not just some high and might country that sits on our little island of awesomeness and looks down at the world, we are just a nation of hard working people that have pride, love and hard work ethics!

Also, keep in mind, although I am vested in this debate, I hold no hard feelings toward anyone, and even though I disagree with parentastic on just about every point he has made on this topic I would still shake your hand if we ever met.... I'm a good sport!

 

[Sight Words]

IMO, this is the problem with the world.

I agree and the USA was founded on the principles of God!