Nice to see you around again. I have been wondering how you guys were doing!Antoinette said:what is the pledge of allegiance? i mean i have heard of it but what are the words and what is the point?
don't mean to sound ignorant or misinformed but we have nothing like this in Australia.. just the anthem.
As far as I am concerned - and I say this as a Canadian, not as a US citizen - this has no place into any school. And not just the "under god" part, but the whole thing. To me, this pledge has 3 things that I deem unacceptable in any school:NPRhead said:"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands. One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" (approximately) It's a spoken pledge a student does at the beginning of schoool.
I'm not sure if links are allowed here, so just lookup Pledge of Allegiance" on Wikipedia. Nice stub on it.
IMO, this is the problem with the world.parentastic said:IMO, religion and politics should always be clearly separated.
And education and children should not be mixed with either of these.
But hey, that's just me. I am just glad I am not in USA.
I don't have any born-Canadian relatives, but do have an aunt and uncle that expatriated to Vancouver, from Seattle, a few years ago. I usewd to read MacLeans as a teen after a school friend origianally from MTL gave me back issues. Was always fascinated by our neighbor to the north, who spoke in an accent somewhat similar to ours, who drove on the right side of the road, who listened to the same music...but who had parliament.parentastic said:As far as I am concerned - and I say this as a Canadian, not as a US citizen - this has no place into any school. And not just the "under god" part, but the whole thing. To me, this pledge has 3 things that I deem unacceptable in any school:
1) It has a political flavor / agenda
2) It has christian religious references
3) It is taught to children who are too young to have critical thinking.
IMO, religion and politics should always be clearly separated.
And education and children should not be mixed with either of these.
But hey, that's just me. I am just glad I am not in USA.
No, we do not.NPRhead said:Was always fascinated by our neighbor to the north, but I've never thought to ask, do they have a similar pledge they go through?
I agree completely with this. IMO there are too many variables in religion for it to be a part of anything official, including education and government. There are way too many religions, and you know there are way too many gray areas. To me, education should simply be about learning. Law making and such should be strictly about business, and religion is not business at all. It is IMO recreational, beliefs and not fact, emotional and not necessary to law making or educating at all. I absolutely do not want someone's religious beliefs getting in the way of the logic and level headedness necessary for law making and government ruling. The only people who are really, truely for it are the Christians. They think that their religion is the only one that matters, and that's why it's okay. I personally have more respect for people with other beliefs than mine to feel that way. I am an athiest and I don't think the government or the schools should be preaching athiesm. That wouldn't be fair to the Christians, or the Jewish, or the Muslims, or the Bhuddists, etc. And I think that their beliefs shouldn't be disrespected, just as I wouldn't want mine to be. Christians just don't seem to make that connection.parentastic said:To me, this pledge has 3 things that I deem unacceptable in any school:
1) It has a political flavor / agenda
2) It has christian religious references
3) It is taught to children who are too young to have critical thinking.
IMO, religion and politics should always be clearly separated.
And education and children should not be mixed with either of these.
But hey, that's just me. I am just glad I am not in USA.
I was referring to religion being a part of education and politics, not the word "God".NancyM said:It's not christian either by the way, Many religions believe in God...in many different forms, When people say the pledge and choose to say 'under God' it may not be a christian God they are referring too.
Two things comes to mind:NancyM said:I also agree that God should be left up to each individual to believe or not to believe. I don't approve of government butting in to religion but actually "God" is used in many patriotic songs and I'm sure other countries have the word God in theirs as well. I doubt that it's only an 'American Thing'.
But why should they be forced to pledge to their country either?NancyM said:I agree that it shouldn't be mentioned and children shouldn't be forced to say it.
I get that. What I don't get is how saying it in a different context than mass at church, for instance, makes it different than a prayer?NancyM said:For all of you who do not live in America I understand how the pledge might be misunderstood. However it isn't a prayer, we never say it in church before a mass, it's a pledge of Allegiance to your country.
But why salute a flag?NancyM said:America added in the part: 'Of the United States of America" in regards to the flag we are saluting.