Kids and delayed gratification...

[singledad]

I've just had a really interesting conversation with a colleague about teaching our kids about delayed gratification. She was of the opinion that by responding instantly to our children's needs, we condition them to expect instant gratification, and that we should rather make them wait. I don't quite agree with that, but found myself at a loss when trying to formulate a counter-argument. I certainly can't deny that many gen-Y'ers wants the moon and the stars - NOW, and feels hard done by when they are told to be patient. I also know that my daughter finds it almost impossible to wait for something, but then - she's only 4.

So I figured I throw the question on here - do you think its important to teach our kids about delayed gratification? How? At what age? Is it even something we can teach, or is it something that is determined by their individual personalities?

 

[IADad]

yeah, I can see the point of trying to teach it. and I think as early as possible. We try to not get things on impulse. and we talk with the kids about the buying decision buying this now, versus something better later, of considering if it's something we need rather than want.) We're still far too indulgent, I'm m sure, but we try. I guess the biggest thing is trying to teach the difference between want and need. There's nothing wrong with getting what you want if you can afford it (and by that I don't mean simply financially today, I mean at what cost in the grand scheme of things.)

So, I can't see myself making a grand plan or hard set of rues, but it's more a matter of focus and a reminder to keep teaching perspective.

 

[Jeremy+3]

All of our children are subject to delayed gratification from pretty much from when they are born/when they entered our family.

If you don't expect your children to wait for things you're showing how easy it is for them to get their own way, but you're also reducing their thoughts about actually thinking before doing something/buying something. All of our children have been fairly good about waiting, or being told on this date, or at this time we can do this/you can have this etc. Arguments, or general sulking very rarely happens after one of ours have been told to wait when they are children.

Singledad if you yourself had gone with delayed gratification (which doesn't have to be every single time) she would have far better self control, age has very little to do with it, if you don't teach something to a child they can't do it/express until they are quite old. I also think four is fairly old to be using it as a reason for a certain behaviour.

Singledad what are your reasons for giving straight away when you do decide to give/do something instead of waiting?

 

[Kali]

If there were ever kids in need of being taught delayed gratification, it'd be mine. But how do you recondition a 4 and 7 yr old? They have NO concept of patience.

 

[Choppy]

This reminds me of:
http://www.cbc.ca/strangeanimal/2011/07/19/why-do-we-lack-will-power/[/URL]

In the experiment, (watch the YouTube video) children are given a marshmellow. They can eat it immediately and get nothing, or they can wait for a few minutes while the host leaves the room and get 2 marshmellows, provided the initial marshmellow is still there when she gets back.

It's a re-creation of an experiment initially done back in the 60s. Researchers found that NOT eating the marshmellow was a far greater indicator of success later on in life than other presumably more important factors such as IQ.

 

[mom2many]

I agree to some extent, if my kids want something I do make them wait until I am either ready to get it or done doing what I am doing. Right now it is something I am working on with Kailyn...that and her knowing that just cause she can say mine doesn't mean it is hers LOL

I don't think it has to be extreme, just a simple "Okay, give me a minute to ????" and then making them wait is enough to help them learn some patience.

 

[singledad]

Mmm, interesting. You all seem to lean towards what my colleague said, but just perhaps a little less extreme. So perhaps its time for me to make some adjustments.

we talk with the kids about the buying decision buying this now, versus something better later, of considering if it's something we need rather than want.
...
So, I can't see myself making a grand plan or hard set of rues, but it's more a matter of focus and a reminder to keep teaching perspective.

Funny enough, my DD isn't all that difficult about buying things. Its more about wanting something to eat, doing something - like watching a movie or me reading her a story, or wanting attention in general. Its not that she's always looking for attention, its just that if she wants it, she wants it immediately, regardless of what I'm busy with.

And she's OK with "no" in many cases. Its just "In a minute" that she struggles with

Singledad what are your reasons for giving straight away when you do decide to give/do something instead of waiting?

I don't know, really. I guess it has a lot to do with not wanting her to feel like I don't have time for her, or that I don't care about what she wants. It is very important to me that she knows that she is the most important thing in my life.

Perhaps I'm over-compensating, because as a kid I was often ignored by my mother, and I don't want her to feel that way...

Singledad if you yourself had gone with delayed gratification (which doesn't have to be every single time) she would have far better self control, age has very little to do with it, if you don't teach something to a child they can't do it/express until they are quite old. I also think four is fairly old to be using it as a reason for a certain behaviour.

Ok, so there goes my excuse .

I am working on with Kailyn...
...
I don't think it has to be extreme, just a simple "Okay, give me a minute to ????" and then making them wait is enough to help them learn some patience.

Kailyn is the baby? Only 20 months old?

I think I should try that. I hope its not too late

 

[jessicams]

if it is simply a want and not a need, my girls have been conditioned to that since birth but not by any choice on my part. There's only one of me and two of them. They're going to have to wait at some points and I can only see myself continuing with it because I have to. There will never be two of me so they will always have to be subjected to the concept of waiting.

 

[mom2many]

Kailyn is the baby? Only 20 months old?

I think I should try that. I hope its not too late

I should update that, she's 22 months now lol and no it is never to late it just requires some patience on your part.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

it depends. yes, kids need to learn patience, however, things like food, drink, sleep, or energy release shouldn't be delayed too long especially if a child is very young.

 

[Shiroi Tora]

This reminds me of:
http://www.cbc.ca/strangeanimal/2011/07/19/why-do-we-lack-will-power/[/URL]

In the experiment, (watch the YouTube video) children are given a marshmellow. They can eat it immediately and get nothing, or they can wait for a few minutes while the host leaves the room and get 2 marshmellows, provided the initial marshmellow is still there when she gets back.

It's a re-creation of an experiment initially done back in the 60s. Researchers found that NOT eating the marshmellow was a far greater indicator of success later on in life than other presumably more important factors such as IQ.

(referring to the original experiment)

They were followed up many years later. They had found a great correlation among the children that could hold out...at least the longest....to being much more successful later in life. The ones that had held out... all had done well....some of the ones that could not ( a much lower percentage ) had also become successful.

The ones that had become successful despite their earlier failure had learned deferred gratification. It shows that one can overcome an earlier disposition.

Deferred Gratification simply means to put off then for greater returns later... to put in the effort and to reap greater rewards later in life.

Now, the ones in this particular experiment showed that the 4 year olds that had waited had used distraction (thinking about something else....looked away...fiddled with their hair...etc). A better way would involve keeping the desired result in focus and to enjoy the journey until reached.

Various techniques already exist...some instilled in our culture already. The saving of change in a piggy bank for a nice toy in a few months is a good example.

Sports / music / academics (taken seriously - hours a day of practice) is a great way to learn Deferred Gratification. It demonstrates to the child, so effectively, the real life benefits of striving then for great benefits later on. With positive results....positive behavior naturally follows. The "natural high" ....the internal satisfaction from achievement is a positive addiction....one in which the child strives to repeat. With the parents guidance....ensuring the appropriate goals are set before them....the child will become more and more motivated with each successive victory...they are then on the correct path of self mastery. This all important lesson is what keeps children drug / gang / failure resistant. The concept of future is instilled. Having a heavily desired goal (passion) with an efficient path lain out before the child (a direction for the resulting drive)...gives them a reason to forgo cheap Immediate Gratification at the sacrifice of directed Deferred Gratification.

With Positive Reinforcement of good behaviors and achievements...there is an immediate and a greater deferred gratification when the desired result is achieved. This is why Positive Reinforcement is such a powerful way of teaching.

Deferred Gratification is a result of having a goal...this instills drive...one that can overcome the drive for immediate gratification. With this important realization....children will make it a habit that will carry over into all aspects of their lives.

The key to this is a worthy goal...and worthy objectives along the way. Give them examples of success...great people in history or in life to emulate. Lay out the path necessary to achieve that goal....plant plentiful achievable objectives along the way and give plentiful Positive Reinforcement throughout.

With a map of their future before them....they will have a concrete example that can then be visualized, and so, conceptualized. This can then become a way for the child to measure their progress and provides a powerful motivator. Just as importantly....it appeals to your critically reasoning child because you will have established cause and effect in their minds...and not blind faith. Since it will make sense to them....it will become their journey...and their pride when they achieve the milestones along the way.

Drive is the most important variable in success. Deferred Gratification comes naturally to those with a passion in mind. For those without having realized their passions at that time (very few 4 year olds do)...Deferred Gratification is a necessary step to achieving their passions in the future....one that with practice...leads them to the realization of broader horizons (concept of future) to strive for....this will lead them to their passions....which develops their drive.

One last point...patience is a component of Deferred Gratification...not the same as. Patience, alone, is waiting for what will come. DG is working toward a goal of higher returns rather than taking then for lower returns. Patience is passive...no specific goal...DG is fighting the urge to act or by working hard for better...with a specific goal in mind...it is active....IMNSHO

 

[singledad]

Wow. Thanks for the detailed reply Shiroi

I am actually disappointed in myself that I didn't see the link between deferred gratification and the ability to work towards a goal before. I guess I've just always thought that she's impatient, and that I can't be too hard on her because she's just a little girl. What you say makes so much sense, though. Its all connected - Deferred gratification, motivation, patience, self control, understanding long-term consequences...

I'm going to read it a few more times. I may have more questions later

 

[centrix1976]

Wow, this struggle has been going on in my head for years. My three siblings and I were raised in a small farming town and we didn't have a lot of money. Basically if we didn't need it we didn't get it. We waited for birthday's and Christmas. Now raising my kids in an overly pretentious society in South Florida people make it seem like your an abusive parent if your child does not wear $100 jeans or have a smart phone. It's really one extreme to the other and it's really hard to relate to what my kids are going through. My family thinks my kids are spoiled rotten and my in-laws think my kids are deprived. Think tonight when I have some 'me' time I need to read through Shiroi's response a couple times. LOL

 

[dh098017]

d

 

[alter ego]

as an attachment parent i have always responded asap to my childrens needs. as they developed 'wants' if i had a logical explanation (ie 'im just in the shower, i will help you in a minute') they understood.
the psychology behind ap is that by teaching children that they can influence the world around them (i cry and mmmy cuddles me) they learn that they have the ability to manipulate the world, and cause and effect.
this lays the foundation for self esteem and intellectual achievement.
its not easy (i have 6 kids, including a set of twins) and it was a challenge, but its paying off very evidently in my older two. (my son excells at violin, and my daughter is possilbly dux of the school this year)

 

[singledad]

as an attachment parent i have always responded asap to my childrens needs. as they developed 'wants' if i had a logical explanation (ie 'im just in the shower, i will help you in a minute') they understood.
the psychology behind ap is that by teaching children that they can influence the world around them (i cry and mmmy cuddles me) they learn that they have the ability to manipulate the world, and cause and effect.
this lays the foundation for self esteem and intellectual achievement.
its not easy (i have 6 kids, including a set of twins) and it was a challenge, but its paying off very evidently in my older two. (my son excells at violin, and my daughter is possilbly dux of the school this year)

Good for you.

Unfortunately I am a single parent who has to work 8 hours a day, or more when managers fail to realise that men also have family responsibilities, so ap isn't an option for me. My daughter is in pre-school 5 days a week, 9-10 hours a day. There's nothing I can do about that.

 

[alter ego]

You can still AP!
Its more a mindset of guiding children rather than 'training' them.
I agree that people are very sexist when it comes to family roles, my old work would complain about parental leave for men all the time!
Im lucky that I wasnt raised with traditional gender roles, and had no problem with my DH being a SAHD.
How do you spend your time together? Im a firm believer that quality is better than quantity, my kids get sick of me 24/7 If I only had a few hours a day with my child,it would be 100% togetherness, no tv, just reading, drawing, talking, cuddling etc. Even though we have a big family, we make sure we can have special time with each of our kids.
My youngest 2 are easy, love the park, drawing, gardening, nursery rhymes. my twins will join along with us, but they are at full time school too now, so less time.
My older 2 are into sports and music (our son plays violin) so we take turns going with just them, and having a coffee together afterwards.

 

[singledad]

You can still AP!
Its more a mindset of guiding children rather than 'training' them.

Ok. You guys confuse the hell out of me. There is too much terminology being thrown around on this board these days. My understanding about AP is that its all about spending as much time as possible, as close as possible to your child, including co-sleeping, having one parent stay home and be the primary care-giver, and all kinds of things that I couldn't do, even if she wasn't too old already.

How do you spend your time together?

I try to set aside at least 30 min a day that I spend just doing whatever she wants to do - playing, drawing, or sometimes just cuddling - she gets to decide. And then we also have story-time when she goes to bed. The 30-min play time doesn't always happen - life just gets in the way sometimes - but story time always happens. Over weekends we often go out to the park, or for ice-cream, or something like that.

 

[parentastic]

as an attachment parent i have always responded asap to my childrens needs. the psychology behind ap is that by teaching children that they can influence the world around them (i cry and mmmy cuddles me) they learn that they have the ability to manipulate the world, and cause and effect. this lays the foundation for self esteem and intellectual achievement.

^^^^That. :award:

Delayed gratification is a good skill to develop for children - as many studies have proved - but not at the expense of attachment.
Children need FIRST to feel that every one of their fundamental needs are tended to ASAP, so that they develop a safety and security about the world and a desire to explore it without the parent.
(the psychologist call this "having a secure base from which to explore the world").

If you attempt to delay their gratification, and you didn't realize but did it on a fundamental need (need for security, love, attention, belonging, etc) rather than a want, you take the risk of eroding the quality of your relationship and hindering their natural development.

And I also agree with aler-ego, singladad: you can still AP. It's not so much a question of time, it's a question of letting the child guide you in what their needs are - instead of trying to control the child through "training" (behaviorism). It's more about understanding and reacting to root cause rather than behavior. If you have more questions, let me know, this is precisely the parenting type I teach in my workshops.

 

[singledad]

Delayed gratification is a good skill to develop for children - as many studies have proved - but not at the expense of attachment.
Children need FIRST to feel that every one of their fundamental needs are tended to ASAP, so that they develop a safety and security about the world and a desire to explore it without the parent.
(the psychologist call this "having a secure base from which to explore the world").

If you attempt to delay their gratification, and you didn't realize but did it on a fundamental need (need for security, love, attention, belonging, etc) rather than a want, you take the risk of eroding the quality of your relationship and hindering their natural development.

OK - question:
(And please understand that I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand... )
In life, as adults, even things that we consider "needs" (like hunger, loneliness) cannot always be met instantly. Is part of learning deferred gratification not also learning that even fundamental needs sometimes need to wait?

And I also agree with aler-ego, singladad: you can still AP. It's not so much a question of time, it's a question of letting the child guide you in what their needs are - instead of trying to control the child through "training" (behaviorism). It's more about understanding and reacting to root cause rather than behavior. If you have more questions, let me know, this is precisely the parenting type I teach in my workshops.

Thank you. I will certainly continue to post my questions as they come up, and will appreciate feedback from you.