Lesbian daughter -HELP...

[raspberryicarus]

I'm new to this site, but I'm stressed and desperately need some advice. I recently found out my daughter is a lesbian. I used her computer and found out that she frequents a LGBT forum. I know I shouldn't have invaded her privacy, but I read some of her posts, and it is clear that she is struggling. In her posts, she talks about feelings of shame and says that she wants to stay in the closet forever. I just don't know what to do now, and I don't know how to approach the subject. I really want to tell her I know so that we can talk about it, but I don't want to lose her trust. I don't want her to hide from me for the rest of her life. I'm just at a loss.

Should I approach her directly or let her come to me? How do I let her know that it's okay?
Please help

 

[parentastic]

Hi Op,

I think the answer to your question depends on your history and family dynamics in the past.
How is homosexuality perceived in your family? Is it usually scorned or accepted? How open are you about it? And how open are you about being open about it? Do you know why your daughter is scared of leaving the closet? Could she be scared to lose your respect? Would she?

The first step is to give yourself a hard look and go back to your family history vs sexual orientation. You must realize first that this is something deep and fully innate and that there is NOTHING you can do to change this.
She is attracted by what she is attracted by and that's just it.
If you are wondering how to "talk" her out of it; if you see her orientation as a problem, it's not going to work well.

If you see her orientation as <U>normal</U> and her •distress• about the society pressure and family pressure as the problem, THEN you have the right attitude to proceed.

My base principles here are:
A) authenticity (of being who we are, of trusting we can be authentic). That means that if you want her to be authentic with you, reveal who she is with you openly and not be ashamed of it, you must also yourself be authentic and real.
B) trust (keeping and preserving it). That means trust is a delicate thing easily shattered but difficult to build. She needs a lot of trust right now and you need to thread carefully. If you are puzzled at some point as you get to discuss with her, better be honest about it using "I" messages, than pretend or play a role. Which is why it's so important for you to be clear on what your beliefs are about sexual orientation - and if you are not seeing as I described above, you've got work to do on revising your views first.
C) unconditional love &amp; support. Sounds evident, but it's not. Many young gays are terrified that they will no longer be loved or supported by their family, yet it is who they are and they cannot anymore change it than a straight person could change their own attraction to the opposite gender.

If you have only recently come to the conclusion that its ok that she is a lesbian (because you've just discovered it in your daughter, but never really displayed these values before), i.e, if you have raised her in family values that are homophobic or that could cause hear to fear her family reactions, you have work to do.

How about this:

- don't mention you read her stuff unless asked directly. (if asked directly do not lie hiwever as this will damage the trust even more - be authentic always)

- spend some quality time with her and find a good moment to say how you respect all people's love. Look in your newspaper! France is having a huge anti-gay movement these days because they are about to legalize the marriage far all. Its a perfect opportunity to comment the news and tell her how you think France is doing a food thing and how sad it is to have so many people against equal rights for everyone. This will show your daughter you aren't against gay rights and a good discussion might happen... In which she will know the door is open. No need to force it then.

Here is an article from the BBC as a starting point:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21004322

- trust me, if she feels fully supported (and can see you have sided with non-judgment and acceptance) she will WANT to tell you. Its a heavy burden and she needs your strong support and understanding against the rest of the world.

- WHATEVER you do, <U>DO NOT</U> try to tell her it can be changed, or that it's just a fancy, or that it will pass or worst that it's a defect needing a cure! If you believe that then dont talk to her and come back here to discuss it with us.

Good luck!

 

[cybele]

Hi Raspberryicarus,
I'm going to assume by your last line of "How do I let her know that it's okay?" that your daughter is in a lucky place where she doesn't have the battle with her parents with this, which is fantastic.

Before I get into my thoughts, I'll give you a little bit of background of where I am coming from, my 18 year old, Anindita, came out to us when she was 13, it did catch me by surprise, it wasn't something that had crossed my mind before, and there really is a stereotype of "You just know" or "You get a feeling" which made me feel like a terrible mother for not "knowing" but as I talked to other parents of LGBT teens, I realised that it is a pretty silly stereotype, why would you just "know" your child's sexual attractions and orientation? Since then my daughter has been in a relationship for almost three years now and recently got engaged.

I wouldn't mention that you read the stuff on the forum to her, if she is feeling some level of shame then I would assume that would only intensify that, I like Parentastic's view of trying to create a discussion on the topic not directed at her, even little comments could help her feel more comfortable, I guess that if it is not a topic that is discussed in the home then she may not know where you stand on the topic and that could be a drivign force behind some of the shame.

If you don't mind, my daughter is currently lying on the couch doing jack all, so I will get her to post her thoughts to, I'll get her to do it in a different colour. She is much more insightful on this topic than I am.

 

[cybele]

Hello Raspberry,
In continuation of what has already been said, I completely agree with making LGBT issues a topic of conversation in your household, it would certainly create a safer feeling for your daughter. We are still in a world where people in a position where their gender or sexuality differs from the current societal norm still have to guess a perceived response from someone they are speaking to before disclosing gender or sexuality because, unfortunately, each person usually has a story about a time that they have been on the receiving end of extreme prejudice. This feeling is intensified when it is someone as important to you as a parent, and of course, parental approval is constantly sought after, so if she cannot gauge a likely response from you, she is likely to just not say anything.

Don't mention that you snooped, what's done is done, but try not to do it again.

When she does feel comfortable speaking to you, and hopefully she will soon, it is difficult having to hide something like that, if you have any questions that you feel uncomfortable asking her have a look and see if there is a parents of LGBT children support group in your area. I can really appreciate that it is a difficult subject to discuss with a child, regardless of their age. Personally, I head a lesbian teen support group that I was fortunate enough to join when I was younger, and was offered the position of running the group around 18 months ago, and around three times a year we run parents information evenings where parents can ask the group leaders anything under the sun that they have on their minds about the topic (anonymously via writing them down and putting them into a box, and group leaders drawing them out and discussing them) in addition to discussing recent LGBT issues in further depth and they are always booked out and very informative.

I wish you and your daughter the very best of luck.

- Dita

 

[raspberryicarus]

Thank you so much for the great responses.

To answer parentastic's questions: I know that she can't help who she is attracted to, and I'm not trying to change her. I am shocked and unused to the idea of a lesbian daughter, but I don't love her any less. I just want her to be able to talk to me about it, and I want her to know that I still love her and don't think badly of her for this. I know she is feeling shame, so I want to erase that feeling and get her to where she is comfortable enough to come to me. Unfortunately, our home wasn't the most gay friendly environment for her to grow up in. We are Catholic, and my husband is very into his religion, so I'm not sure how he would react to this news. He says some very homophobic things at times, but I don't think that what he says comes from hate; I think they are just meant to be (really bad) jokes. I'm also guilty here, because I would never verbally disagree with him when he would say offensive things about gay people, which I realize she probably took to mean that I agreed with those views, but I never knew that I had a child who would be taking those things to heart.
I will definitely be taking your advice of expressing my support indirectly by talking about relevant events in the news. That is a good way to start bringing the topic up.

To cybele and her daughter: Thank you so much for the support and encouragement. I definitely need to do a better job showing her that I love her unconditionally, but I think that the advice you and parentastic have given me will help a lot.

there really is a stereotype of "You just know" or "You get a feeling" which made me feel like a terrible mother for not "knowing"

I'm feeling extremely guilty for not realizing sooner. She has just turned 21 and has never once expressed interest in boys, which really should have clued me in. I thought she was just a late bloomer (she was always very studious and into school, so I thought she just had her priorities straight). It never crossed my mind that she might not be attracted to boys.

 

[parentastic]

He says some very homophobic things at times, but I don't think that what he says comes from hate; I think they are just meant to be (really bad) jokes.

Hate usually stems from fear of the unknown or fear of what's different or strange. But I am guessing if this is how he has reacted in the past, and you haven't opposed, it's a pretty good bet that this is, at least in a large part, why she is so much struggling and afraid.
The "it's just a joke" defense is so commonly used to "hide" homophobia when people are confronted to their reaction - I can pretty much guarantee any gay person is going to be HEAVILY allergic to it.
Better someone who openly says don't understand or even hate it, than someone who hides behind the "it's just a joke" excuse, because at least you can confront them and talk to them, IMO.

I'm also guilty here, because I would never verbally disagree with him when he would say offensive things about gay people...

Why not? Are you afraid of his reaction?

If you, a trusted married heterosexual partner - are afraid of his reaction at opposing one of his homophobic "joke" - then imagine! That should give you an idea of how <I>SHE</I> might be afraid of his reaction if she gets out of the closet....
Food for thought, isn't it?

...which I realize she probably took to mean that I agreed with those views...

...that, and also that she cannot count on you to defend her, should she chose to reveal the truth to him.
Consider it from her point of view. She needs allies.
Are you an ally in her eyes? From what you describe, right now, probably not. You can change that, however. You'll need to take a stance.

but I never knew that I had a child who would be taking those things to heart.

I understand.
And perhaps it's a good thing if your daughter can see that you are starting to take a stand and defend people's right to be themselves without being mocked <U><I>before</I></U> she realizes you know about her orientation.
On the flip side, don't pretend anything, if she confronts you about knowing about her - don't say no if it's yes. Stay authentic!

I will definitely be taking your advice of expressing my support indirectly by talking about relevant events in the news. That is a good way to start bringing the topic up.

Yes. But I hope you can also start to speak up when your husband makes derogatory remarks. She needs to feel that she can count on you to be on her side openly eventually, not just to be neutral when he is around. She needs to see that there is a mama tiger ready to defend her cubs, so to speak, not just a neutral stance. And not just because she is your daughter, otherwise she may feel tolerated instead of actually supported. You may need to show her, through your actions, that you support people's right to love and exist and be happy as they are, and not just because one of them happens to be your daughter.

I'm feeling extremely guilty for not realizing sooner.

I think you also need to give you a bit of slack here and realize that when gay people are in the closet, they most likely have been there for YEARS as they started to realize their attractions do not match the social expectations... she had possibly as much as a decade of experience in hiding it from everyone, and especially from her family, it's a survival instinct. So it's not too surprising you wouldn't have noticed before. We also tend to see what we want to see and ignore what we don't want to see, that's part of the human confirmation bias. Not your fault.
What matters now is what you do next and how. And from what I read, you are doing well, you have an open mind and are ready to support your daughter in a difficult time. Kudos! If you are sincere and authentic, she will see that.

 

[raspberryicarus]

Why not? Are you afraid of his reaction?

If you, a trusted married heterosexual partner - are afraid of his reaction at opposing one of his homophobic "joke" - then imagine! That should give you an idea of how <I>SHE</I> might be afraid of his reaction if she gets out of the closet....
Food for thought, isn't it?

He has a pretty bad temper, so I pick my battles to avoid the confrontation. Challenging him on this was never a priority before, but it is now.
And you are absolutely right. Even I am nervous about confronting him on this, but I'm sure that's nothing compared to how she must feel.

Yes. But I hope you can also start to speak up when your husband makes derogatory remarks. She needs to feel that she can count on you to be on her side openly eventually, not just to be neutral when he is around. She needs to see that there is a mama tiger ready to defend her cubs, so to speak, not just a neutral stance. And not just because she is your daughter, otherwise she may feel tolerated instead of actually supported. You may need to show her, through your actions, that you support people's right to love and exist and be happy as they are, and not just because one of them happens to be your daughter....

....What matters now is what you do next and how. And from what I read, you are doing well, you have an open mind and are ready to support your daughter in a difficult time. Kudos! If you are sincere and authentic, she will see that.

I will definitely speak up and be fully supportive from now on. Thank you once again for everything. You have been very helpful and enlightening.

 

[Cop2be]

Thank you so much for the great responses.

To answer parentastic's questions: I know that she can't help who she is attracted to, and I'm not trying to change her. I am shocked and unused to the idea of a lesbian daughter, but I don't love her any less. I just want her to be able to talk to me about it, and I want her to know that I still love her and don't think badly of her for this. I know she is feeling shame, so I want to erase that feeling and get her to where she is comfortable enough to come to me. Unfortunately, our home wasn't the most gay friendly environment for her to grow up in. We are Catholic, and my husband is very into his religion, so I'm not sure how he would react to this news. He says some very homophobic things at times, but I don't think that what he says comes from hate; I think they are just meant to be (really bad) jokes. I'm also guilty here, because I would never verbally disagree with him when he would say offensive things about gay people, which I realize she probably took to mean that I agreed with those views, but I never knew that I had a child who would be taking those things to heart.
I will definitely be taking your advice of expressing my support indirectly by talking about relevant events in the news. That is a good way to start bringing the topic up.

To cybele and her daughter: Thank you so much for the support and encouragement. I definitely need to do a better job showing her that I love her unconditionally, but I think that the advice you and parentastic have given me will help a lot.

I'm feeling extremely guilty for not realizing sooner. She has just turned 21 and has never once expressed interest in boys, which really should have clued me in. I thought she was just a late bloomer (she was always very studious and into school, so I thought she just had her priorities straight). It never crossed my mind that she might not be attracted to boys.

It's not your fault for not being able to tell. I never dated in high school and never brought any guys home till the one I'm with now, solely because guys was not a subject to talk about with my mom. So you can never just tell and asking is dangerous territory.

 

[raspberryicarus]

It's not your fault for not being able to tell. I never dated in high school and never brought any guys home till the one I'm with now, solely because guys was not a subject to talk about with my mom. So you can never just tell and asking is dangerous territory.

Thank you for saying that. I just feel bad that I have been so oblivious to what she was going through, and it hurts that she doesn't feel safe enough to talk to me about it.

 

[Cop2be]

Thank you for saying that. I just feel bad that I have been so oblivious to what she was going through, and it hurts that she doesn't feel safe enough to talk to me about it.

Talking to parents about any type of relationship or orientation is hard.
I'm straight so it should be easy for me but I don't talk to my Mom about that crap.

 

[Antoinette]

my brother came out when he was 18 and it was very hard for him to do because at the time neither of our parents were very supportive but i figured it out before he came out and when i talked to him about it i did more harm than good and really pushed him further into the closet. i say just try to work on your relationship with her and she will come out when she is ready, just make sure you are supportive when she does

 

[raspberryicarus]

my brother came out when he was 18 and it was very hard for him to do because at the time neither of our parents were very supportive but i figured it out before he came out and when i talked to him about it i did more harm than good and really pushed him further into the closet. i say just try to work on your relationship with her and she will come out when she is ready, just make sure you are supportive when she does

Thank you. That is what I'm trying to do, although it is hard to be patient because I can't stop myself from worrying about it. Part of me just wants to confront her so that I can get the weight off my chest, but I know I shouldn't. I just want it to be all out in the open already.

 

[raspberryicarus]

Hello again. I need some more help. I feel bad that I keep asking for advice when I haven't given any, but y'all are the only people I have to talk to about this. Since receiving y'all's earlier advice, I have begun to challenge my husband when he makes homophobic jokes/statements, especially when he says them in front of our daughter. The problem is that this has only annoyed him and egged him on, so I decided to have a discussion with him last night to find out how he really feels about homosexuality. Basically, he thinks it it is a sin, and that gay people are disgusting perverts. I asked him what he would do if one of our kids turned out to be gay, and he said that he would no longer consider him/her his child. How could he say that?! I'm extremely upset to learn that this is how he feels.
Can his mind be changed, and do any of you have any idea how I could start?

 

[Mom2all]

I'd create a safe haven for your daughter. I think.. though I'm not an expert or someone who has a child that I know is gay, that the best course of action is to let her know, without letting her know that you know she is, that your open minded.
I can tell you this... I once thought it was a possibility. My son, who has always been a big fan of boobs, started hanging out with a man that too me was obviously gay. I wondered. I was scared to ask him for fear it would make him feel judged. So.. I just made sure I continued on expressing my beliefs in that no one can help who they love. As it turned out, my son come to me and told me he'd figured out about his friend a little late in the friendship and although he thought the guy was cool, he was uncomfortable with him after he knew. So.. potential gay son now boob loving again.

My cousin is out. He struggled with it for a long time although I can say that I felt like he was gay since he was a little boy. He always acted a bit different. So.. when he was older and I could see him going through some tough times, I didn't want to call him on it.. expecting that he wasn't ready to admit it. Instead, I found ways to talk about situations with homophobia and human rights making sure he knew my opinion on it. I showed my disgust at their ignorance and made it clear I felt everyone deserved the right to happiness is whatever way they felt comfortable. If someone tells a joke about it.. don't laugh.. just let them know its not okay with you.

That being said, when he did tell the first person,(besides his boyfriend), it was me. I was the one person he knew beforehand wouldn't judge him.

About your husband.. I have no idea how you can handle that. Telling him may make him confront her. Letting him continue to spew hatred in front of her alienates her. Thats a rock and a hard place. But I know I'd share my opinion with him too. Let him know its not okay with you to feel that way. It is, after all, a sin to judge and a sin to hate.

 

[cybele]

Well, at least you now know exactly where your husband stands.

It depends on your husband's personality, and your relationship with him, of course, but in that situation, personally I would put it to him that I do not want to hear hatred in my home, and should he have any respect for me and the children, he would keep said opinions to himself. On the other hand, if he is happy to continue making such comments and uses your objections to egg himself on, I would simply call him out on it.That said, I have the kind of relationship with my husband where if one of us thinks the other is out of line, we do say "Right, what you are saying disgusts me, you need to pull your head in and think about it properly".

Given what you have just said, and the fact that your daughter is quite ashamed of herself, I would hazard a guess that she already knows her father's stance. In the end, the shame has to come from somewhere.

Can anything be done? Is your husband the kind of person that would respond to education? Or is he the kind of person that would respond to any logical argument with throwbacks?

Either way, personally, I would put my child's mental wellbeing over my husband's privileged stance any day.

 

[Cop2be]

People say that until they realized their child was gay and they would have a hard time with it. You can't just write off someone your daughters age.

 

[raspberryicarus]

About your husband.. I have no idea how you can handle that. Telling him may make him confront her. Letting him continue to spew hatred in front of her alienates her. Thats a rock and a hard place. But I know I'd share my opinion with him too. Let him know its not okay with you to feel that way. It is, after all, a sin to judge and a sin to hate.

That is my dilemma right now. I need to get him to stop saying hateful things in front of her, but I don't know how.

It depends on your husband's personality, and your relationship with him, of course, but in that situation, personally I would put it to him that I do not want to hear hatred in my home, and should he have any respect for me and the children, he would keep said opinions to himself. On the other hand, if he is happy to continue making such comments and uses your objections to egg himself on, I would simply call him out on it.

I'll have another talk with him to tell him how I feel about his views. Dealing with him is a little tricky because if I try to tell him that he needs to keep his hatred to himself, he will just get angry and will probably express his opinions even more. He doesn't like being told what to do.

Can anything be done? Is your husband the kind of person that would respond to education? Or is he the kind of person that would respond to any logical argument with throwbacks?

Of course if I could change his views on this, I would do it. I just don't know how. He has such strong religious views, and I don't know if he could adjust those views to accept homosexuality. And I don't know what arguments I could make that he would listen to.

 

[akmom]

I doubt you can change his views. If he thinks it's wrong and/or it disgusts him, he is entitled to feel that way. Asking someone to suddenly change their religious views is quite a request. He is probably annoyed that you keep getting so passionate about what is, to him, a random topic.

Remember that at this point, he has only told you how he would theoretically feel about having homosexual children. That's not necessarily the same as how he feels about actually having them. My parents once mentioned that they'd disown us if we got pregnant as teens (or that some other parents should... I can't remember the exact circumstances of the remark). But if any of us actually did, I highly doubt we'd be disowned. They would probably have been disgusted, ashamed and disappointed, but in the end they would still love and support us. I think that's how most parents are.

I don't think you can expect him to stop disapproving of homosexuality. But you can expect him to be kind and thoughtful in his words. And to be frank, I think you're being a little unfair by knowing something he doesn't. You're expecting him to embrace something that even you didn't care about until you had a reason. If you want a level playing field in this discussion, maybe you should mention your suspicions. Maybe the fact she never had a boyfriend?

 

[raspberryicarus]

I realize that he won't change his views overnight, and I'm not expecting him to embrace it right now, but I would like to try to open his mind a little so that when she does come out, it is easier on everyone. Regardless of what he believes, I still don't think he should get away with saying the hateful, homophobic things he does around our children.

It is true that I am more motivated to accept homosexuality than he is because of what I know. Hopefully you are right, and he will change his mind once he finds out.
Thank you for responding.

 

[cybele]

Regardless of what he believes, I still don't think he should get away with saying the hateful, homophobic things he does around our children.

I completely agree with this, one can have religious or whatever beliefs without acting in an inappropriate manner about it.

Also, I don't like the idea that people who cannot accept other people, or who hold views that are considered socially unacceptable cannot learn to get over said views and come to some understanding, we don't grow as a society without people doing that.