No Smoking in Parks in 3 local Parks in Peterborough ON...
- Thread starter meow_173
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down here you can buy most alcoholic beverages any day of the week after 7 a.m., except on sundays you have to wait 'til noon and ya can't buy the liquor (vodka, whiskey, tequila, etc.) on sundays. also ya can't buy any after a certain time of night--eh not sure but think its about midnight or so....and ya can buy it in places such as good ole win dixie and wally world. couldn't tell ya squat how it is in other states.
and ya can still smoke in some public areas. it just depends on the city and town. not everyone or many have gone smoke free. yet.
but me thinks ya'll got my point on the banning of alcohol in public if cigs. are going to be banned in public..
not picking on ya fallon or xero.
planes are sometimes full of kiddos and airports are too. lots of other places are full of kids where folks can drink besides airports and ballparks, and flea markets.
now weren't the drunks a pain in the rear when ya came across them?
if a parent doesn't let their kids see them drunk then why would they want to allow their kids to see some stranger or relative drunk?
the ?alcohol intoxication? <U>is</U> just as annoying, dangerous, and nasty as cigarrette smoking..
and ya can still smoke in some public areas. it just depends on the city and town. not everyone or many have gone smoke free. yet.
but me thinks ya'll got my point on the banning of alcohol in public if cigs. are going to be banned in public..
not picking on ya fallon or xero.
planes are sometimes full of kiddos and airports are too. lots of other places are full of kids where folks can drink besides airports and ballparks, and flea markets.
now weren't the drunks a pain in the rear when ya came across them?
if a parent doesn't let their kids see them drunk then why would they want to allow their kids to see some stranger or relative drunk?
the ?alcohol intoxication? <U>is</U> just as annoying, dangerous, and nasty as cigarrette smoking..
You can drink without getting intoxicated, but it is hard to smoke next to a non-smoker without it being annoying. I don't know how you can compare the two.
And does anyone really type with a drawl? Really??
And does anyone really type with a drawl? Really??
have you ever heard of drunk drivers? there's a reason m.a.d.d. exists. a drunk crashing his car into mine would certainly affect my health and the health of those with me, with either minor injuries or serious injuries or a combo. of the two.
plus, death by a drunk driver would certainly affect my health.
its two things with two different ways in which ill health and possibly death is caused that is "second hand". though both are very different in the ways they cause the ill health and death they are both from someone else choosing to use them and be jerks about it around other people.
its been said that folks don't ask to breath the second hand smoke that causes health problems and possibly death. well i don't ask, along with many many many many many others, to be put in the path of a drunk who can't control his car or who decides to get a shotgun out and play with it and/or do god knows what else that's can harm or possibly kill me or any one else.
plus, death by a drunk driver would certainly affect my health.
its two things with two different ways in which ill health and possibly death is caused that is "second hand". though both are very different in the ways they cause the ill health and death they are both from someone else choosing to use them and be jerks about it around other people.
its been said that folks don't ask to breath the second hand smoke that causes health problems and possibly death. well i don't ask, along with many many many many many others, to be put in the path of a drunk who can't control his car or who decides to get a shotgun out and play with it and/or do god knows what else that's can harm or possibly kill me or any one else.
all that stuff is. but ya'll are skirting around how annoying it is to have to put up with drunks or anyone who is drinking an alcoholic beverage in general when you go to flea markets, or just to have dinner, or dancing, etc. its not illegal to drink alcoholic beverages. the behavior most often displayed by those who drink up to a certain point can be and is just as annoying to lots of folks as the cigarette smoke is to people who don't smoke.
i drink, but not very often and i try to do it away from anyone and everyone i know when i do drink. i don't push my behavior on others the way most everyone else does who drinks. i do it in the privacy of my home, never at parties, never in restraunts, never at flea markets or any where else.:no:
I do smoke. the smoking doesn't bother me.
but i can not stand to be near any one who is drinking. for me the behavior a person displays while they are drinking alcoholic beverages is much much much more annoying than a little bit of cigarette smoke could ever be.
putting "because it's annoying and stinks" or something similar in a/the law when /if cigs. are banned doesn't cut it.
you can't and shouldn't ban because something just because it is annoying to others. its not right. you'd be stepping on someone else's rights by doing so. putting something like that in there will make people feel as if they are a target and are getting picked on.
banning something just because it is annoying is just like telling someone they can't wear that perfume or that nail polish color or that shirt or drive that car or cook that favorite meal with the reason being because someone hates it--->the color, the model, the smell of the meal or perfume, the brand of shirt or car, etc. . that sort of thing is called censorship.
telling someone they can't smoke because of the fact that alot of people who do smoke wont throw their butts in the trash and because someone thinks the cig. smoke stinks aint right and is the same thing as those examples i just gave. its censorship
but banning something because it causes health issues as with what folks want to do with the cigarettes and what has been done with drinking and driving and public drunkeness is another thing entirely.
&&&&&&&&&
what about alcohol poisoning? hmm??
two or more people are drunk and possibly past the point of remembering anything. they all keep drinking and egging each other on to drink more and more and don't stop. eventually someone ends up dead or sick and in the hospital because of alcohol poisoning because they starting drinking and got drunk in the first place. its certainly not illegal to drink as much as you want as long as you don't do it public. but guess what? most folks who get alcohol poisoning don't get it in public. and did get it because they were egged on by their drunk friends and buddies who wouldn't have egged them on to keep drinking so much that they got it had they been sober. and the person who got it wouldn't have gotten the alcohol poisoning if they hadn't been drunk in the first place.
same result with two very different substances.----->death by second hand and it wasn't even illegal.
i drink, but not very often and i try to do it away from anyone and everyone i know when i do drink. i don't push my behavior on others the way most everyone else does who drinks. i do it in the privacy of my home, never at parties, never in restraunts, never at flea markets or any where else.:no:
I do smoke. the smoking doesn't bother me.
but i can not stand to be near any one who is drinking. for me the behavior a person displays while they are drinking alcoholic beverages is much much much more annoying than a little bit of cigarette smoke could ever be.
putting "because it's annoying and stinks" or something similar in a/the law when /if cigs. are banned doesn't cut it.
you can't and shouldn't ban because something just because it is annoying to others. its not right. you'd be stepping on someone else's rights by doing so. putting something like that in there will make people feel as if they are a target and are getting picked on.
banning something just because it is annoying is just like telling someone they can't wear that perfume or that nail polish color or that shirt or drive that car or cook that favorite meal with the reason being because someone hates it--->the color, the model, the smell of the meal or perfume, the brand of shirt or car, etc. . that sort of thing is called censorship.
telling someone they can't smoke because of the fact that alot of people who do smoke wont throw their butts in the trash and because someone thinks the cig. smoke stinks aint right and is the same thing as those examples i just gave. its censorship
but banning something because it causes health issues as with what folks want to do with the cigarettes and what has been done with drinking and driving and public drunkeness is another thing entirely.
&&&&&&&&&
what about alcohol poisoning? hmm??
two or more people are drunk and possibly past the point of remembering anything. they all keep drinking and egging each other on to drink more and more and don't stop. eventually someone ends up dead or sick and in the hospital because of alcohol poisoning because they starting drinking and got drunk in the first place. its certainly not illegal to drink as much as you want as long as you don't do it public. but guess what? most folks who get alcohol poisoning don't get it in public. and did get it because they were egged on by their drunk friends and buddies who wouldn't have egged them on to keep drinking so much that they got it had they been sober. and the person who got it wouldn't have gotten the alcohol poisoning if they hadn't been drunk in the first place.
same result with two very different substances.----->death by second hand and it wasn't even illegal.
Drunk behavior in public such as that <U>IS</U> illegal. If it wasn't then that show "Cops" wouldnt be on tv16th ave. said:
16th ave - You're not making any sense. You don't have to get so defensive because we disagree with something that you clearly do (smoke around your kids). It's not good for them, and you need to accept that. However, you can still do it if you want to, because they're your kids and that's your choice and your problem. But you can't do it around other people's kids, because they are not yours and people don't want that crap around their kids because in this day and age, we know better. Don't get mad at us, it's really just the facts. You're just pointing your finger at something else that sucks, but you're really getting off topic. We're not talking about drinking, but yeah sure drinking sucks around kids. But people drink around kids FAR FAR less than they smoke around them. Tons of people smoke around their kids. Not as many people would drink around them on purpose.
Public displays of drunkeness (unless at a bar and such where it belongs) ARE ILLEGAL. Driving while drunk, and especially hitting someone, IS ILLEGAL. And also, that's called an ACCIDENT. Smoking around nonsmokers is done on purpose. More people by FAR die from second hand smoke (which you seem to think is harmless) than by getting hit by drunk drivers every year. So you're really just proving my points by continuing on about all this, in that smoking around nonsmokers is not okay.
People tend to argue that smoking is more harmless than drinking around kids because it doesn't kill anybody RIGHT NOW. It happens later. You'll never see in the news "OMG somebody smoked a cigarette next to my kid and he dropped dead!!" "Person dies in sleep because they smoked too many cigarettes!!" But it's very shallow minded not to take into consideration that smoking kills you and others around you EVENTUALLY and can easily affect the health of your children in a negative way. I already posted some links with the statistics on deaths per year for smokers and for people exposed to second hand smoke. The numbers are phenomenal, and you should really take a look because you are not taking the damaging affects of cigarette smoke seriously enough. Just because it doesn't kill you or your kids right now, doesn't mean it doesn't kill. It does its job slowly, but surely. THESE ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS.
And none of us have mentioned the smell, which you keep talking about. All we've been discussing are the serious things involved in second hand smoke, like health factors and death statistics. There's no reason to throw that around just to make it look like it's no big deal. The smell is no big deal. Kids getting asthma and hundreds of thousands of people dying every year due to second hand smoke, is serious.
And.... I've never seen anyone drunk at a flea market?? :/ Who hangs out at the flea market anyway? Seriously??
I like how you mention that YOU smoking doesn't bother YOU. Well, do you wonder about your kids? I grew up with a parent that smoked and I COULDN'T STAND IT. I have VIVID memories of my mom smoking around me, and holding my breath or hiding my face in my shirt or under the blanket if we were in bed. I always hated NOT ONLY THE SMELL, but the FEELING of the smoke in my nose and throat. You don't know what its like as a smoker, but for a nonsmoker and ESPECIALLY a child, it hurts! It is VERY uncomfortable, I am telling you this from experience! I couldn't stand it. BF also shares the same vivid type of memories with me, of his mom smoking in the car with him and how he choked over it and absolutely hated it, the smell and feeling of breathing it in. Second hand smoke made us very unhappy and uncomfortable as children. I have asthma because of it.
All the stuff you mentioned about drunks hurting people, that's all illegal. The stuff that involves smoking hurting people, should then be equally illegal since you compare them this way. Point made!!
Alcohol poisoning could kill you and isn't illegal, but smoking can and is likely to kill you and is also not illegal, so no contest there.
Public displays of drunkeness (unless at a bar and such where it belongs) ARE ILLEGAL. Driving while drunk, and especially hitting someone, IS ILLEGAL. And also, that's called an ACCIDENT. Smoking around nonsmokers is done on purpose. More people by FAR die from second hand smoke (which you seem to think is harmless) than by getting hit by drunk drivers every year. So you're really just proving my points by continuing on about all this, in that smoking around nonsmokers is not okay.
People tend to argue that smoking is more harmless than drinking around kids because it doesn't kill anybody RIGHT NOW. It happens later. You'll never see in the news "OMG somebody smoked a cigarette next to my kid and he dropped dead!!" "Person dies in sleep because they smoked too many cigarettes!!" But it's very shallow minded not to take into consideration that smoking kills you and others around you EVENTUALLY and can easily affect the health of your children in a negative way. I already posted some links with the statistics on deaths per year for smokers and for people exposed to second hand smoke. The numbers are phenomenal, and you should really take a look because you are not taking the damaging affects of cigarette smoke seriously enough. Just because it doesn't kill you or your kids right now, doesn't mean it doesn't kill. It does its job slowly, but surely. THESE ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS.
And none of us have mentioned the smell, which you keep talking about. All we've been discussing are the serious things involved in second hand smoke, like health factors and death statistics. There's no reason to throw that around just to make it look like it's no big deal. The smell is no big deal. Kids getting asthma and hundreds of thousands of people dying every year due to second hand smoke, is serious.
And.... I've never seen anyone drunk at a flea market?? :/ Who hangs out at the flea market anyway? Seriously??
I like how you mention that YOU smoking doesn't bother YOU. Well, do you wonder about your kids? I grew up with a parent that smoked and I COULDN'T STAND IT. I have VIVID memories of my mom smoking around me, and holding my breath or hiding my face in my shirt or under the blanket if we were in bed. I always hated NOT ONLY THE SMELL, but the FEELING of the smoke in my nose and throat. You don't know what its like as a smoker, but for a nonsmoker and ESPECIALLY a child, it hurts! It is VERY uncomfortable, I am telling you this from experience! I couldn't stand it. BF also shares the same vivid type of memories with me, of his mom smoking in the car with him and how he choked over it and absolutely hated it, the smell and feeling of breathing it in. Second hand smoke made us very unhappy and uncomfortable as children. I have asthma because of it.
All the stuff you mentioned about drunks hurting people, that's all illegal. The stuff that involves smoking hurting people, should then be equally illegal since you compare them this way. Point made!!
Alcohol poisoning could kill you and isn't illegal, but smoking can and is likely to kill you and is also not illegal, so no contest there.
Your all right. The effects of smoking and drinking on other is really not debatable. I think the issue is the extent of the ban. I smoke but dont smoke when my family or people who I know dont smoke are around. No prob.
The issue is when a bar owner wants to have a smoking bar. Is willing to advertise the bar as a smoking bar. Is willing to have customers pay a small fee give them a card to make it a private choice to be a member of his club. And not be allowed to do so. The problem is being in a open space away from the mass of public where the PPM (parts per million) would be a pittance if at all. IMO its an abuse of power. If the laws stayed in the arena of common sense. I have no problem with that.
Right now the powers that be have there foot in the door and are saying "why stop there?". Mark my word its not going to end with smokers.
ps Unwanted unplanned pregnancy, STD's, Uninsured healthcare, victims of voilence, ect... Drinking is not victimless problem. But I'm not going to spend any time banging that drum or theyll be shutting down my bar completely.
The issue is when a bar owner wants to have a smoking bar. Is willing to advertise the bar as a smoking bar. Is willing to have customers pay a small fee give them a card to make it a private choice to be a member of his club. And not be allowed to do so. The problem is being in a open space away from the mass of public where the PPM (parts per million) would be a pittance if at all. IMO its an abuse of power. If the laws stayed in the arena of common sense. I have no problem with that.
Right now the powers that be have there foot in the door and are saying "why stop there?". Mark my word its not going to end with smokers.
ps Unwanted unplanned pregnancy, STD's, Uninsured healthcare, victims of voilence, ect... Drinking is not victimless problem. But I'm not going to spend any time banging that drum or theyll be shutting down my bar completely.
Yeah, well like I said before, it makes perfect sense to me to have a smoking area specifically set out for places that have a smoking ban. It is only fair. I would not be against that.
Speaking of smoking, did any of you guys get that raise in taxes on cigarettes?? HOLY CRAP. I went to Kwik Fill the other day to get BF a bag of tobacco (he's rolling right now) and the little bag (6oz) was $20!!! The bigger bag (maybe 16oz or something?) was like $50-$60!!!!!!!! WOAH. Maybe this will help BF quit.
Speaking of smoking, did any of you guys get that raise in taxes on cigarettes?? HOLY CRAP. I went to Kwik Fill the other day to get BF a bag of tobacco (he's rolling right now) and the little bag (6oz) was $20!!! The bigger bag (maybe 16oz or something?) was like $50-$60!!!!!!!! WOAH. Maybe this will help BF quit.
we've been hit with the new tax in some areas but not all. some of the stores wereeven charging the new tax before it went into affect and some haven't even begun to charge the new tax now that it is in affect.
as far as the other, well maybe i should try with short and sweet and agree with this part. there was no need to go into all that other stuff. the short and sweet would have probably made it more affective.
""""the extent of the ban."""" and some of the reasoning behind it is the only problems i would have with a ban on smoking. you can only go so far before people will start speaking up and raising cane about things regardless of any health issues that go along with a substance presented to them.
as far as the other, well maybe i should try with short and sweet and agree with this part. there was no need to go into all that other stuff. the short and sweet would have probably made it more affective.
""""the extent of the ban."""" and some of the reasoning behind it is the only problems i would have with a ban on smoking. you can only go so far before people will start speaking up and raising cane about things regardless of any health issues that go along with a substance presented to them.