Not debate, advice regarding structure ;)...

Sybella

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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Hi all, I'm completely new here and couldn't figure out where to put my question. It isn't so much about the kids as much as parenting styles in conflict. So, here goes...

I am 36 and have three children. I have an almost 17-year-old daughter, and two boys, 12 and 9 from my previous marriage. My current situation is new; my husband and I didn't officially move in together until Labor Day weekend. He is 44 and never had any kids of his own.

My spouse's style tends to be authoritative. He is good about structure and rules, so much better than I am. It is something I really like about him. I know that children, no matter how much they protest at the time, actually like structure because it makes them feel loved...as long as it is not in excess. He's also taken on the after-school homework part of the parenting "chore."

My parenting style is more on the lenient side. My kids know full well who is in control, and they are good kids but I allow a lot of play, a lot of wiggle room. We talk, we cuddle. Sometimes they do their own thing, sometimes I do mine...and if they need me, they know where to find me. But I'm not big on structure. I'm an adult and I still forget to look at the clock so I can't blame my kids for not paying attention to the time! ;) If I give them something to do, I usually give them a day to do it, not a certain time.

In all honesty, I have spent most of my adult life as a single parent. Trust me, I'm delighted that he takes an active role in my children's lives. He's the first one to do so. (My boys love finally having a Daddy in the house. My daughter is still resistant but she's a teen. She'll come around eventually.) My ex husband was more like another child. He played with them but didn't know how to take charge of anything...and I'm not just saying that to be mean. We're still friends.

I tell my man he's a good daddy. And I think together, we are a good pair, that it's a good combination of strengths that balance out.

Now, on to why I am here...My husband works an early shift so he goes to bed before all of us. The boys have a 9:00 bedtime. All 4 of us, my daughter included, were sitting around the livingroom watching an hour show last night, giggling, having fun, and before I realized it, it was after 9:30. I noticed the time, said, "Oh no, it's past bedtime, guys!" and my older boy said, "Mom, can we watch the last 20 minutes of the show we've been watching?" I didn't see the harm in it, so I said okay. At 10, just as the boys were tucking themselves in, and the dog that sleeps with them, my husband gets up to go to the bathroom. Next thing you know, he's ticked. I have no clue what's wrong. As he was going back into the bedroom, I asked "Is there a problem?" but he just kept going. Perhaps he didn't hear me.

About 15 minutes later, the door opens. Our bedroom door is off the livingroom. Again I asked if there was a problem. He says to me, "Yes, I can't sleep...'cause I'm wondering something." I said, "Okay." Then, I got up and went in to talk to him.

I'm sure you all can see what is coming, though I was a bit blindsided by it. He was mad at me for letting the kids stay up after bedtime. He said, "Why do we make rules if they don't have to be in force when I am in bed? What does it say to them if the rules don't have to be followed?" I'm thinking, "What's the problem with staying up an hour after bedtime once in a while?" But I didn't say anything...I just let him vent. I didn't want to have a full blown argument when he had to be up in less than 5 hours for work.

Now, I was raised by hippies (yes, really) and he was raised in a more conservative household, his dad is a doctor. But I'm the experienced parent. And I think that is what is frustrating me; I should know what to say but I don't. How do I get him to mellow out a little without crushing him? He's trying so hard, too hard, but at the same time, he not respecting me. We are different but that doesn't make either of us wrong.

Any suggestions, please?

'Bella
 

fallon

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Jul 19, 2007
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I think it's ok to let little rules go evey once in a while, especially if you have good kids. I would say you and your hubby need to talk about what each of you see as right or wrong when it comes to raising children. (I go through this once in a while with my guy) even though you are the experienced parent he may have something to add that you didn't think of, and maybe a clearer explanation on why you see things the way you do might help him understand better.
 

Sybella

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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Ok, thanks...but how do I plead my case? If he think it's harmful to not stick to the rules and I think it's harmless to treat them more as guidelines, what can I say? I'm thankful for your reply but I still don't know what to say. LOL!

'Bella
 

fallon

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Jul 19, 2007
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me personally I would sit down over a nice dinner alone with him and tell him how you feel, than listen to how he feels. Each person has a chance to hear the others side, no interuping, no fighting just real converstaion. Tell him the truth, with reasons and facts to back them up
 

Kaytee

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Apr 9, 2007
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I agree with Fallon. It is wonderful that this man wants to be a part of your childrens life, but they are your children. The 17 year old is in a sense already "raised" of course she still has growing to do and so forth, but...
THey are still your children and he has to respect that. That is not to say that he should not have control over discipline and the such. It just means that when the two of you disagree about something like bedtime, you either should comprimise or it should go by what you say. Things need to be hashed out (probably should have been before moving in with him)
 

FooserX

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Jul 11, 2007
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Here are my thoughts, because I feel like you described my wife and I pretty good with that one:


You think he's mad because you let them stay up an hour.

He's mad because you're ALREADY a push over, while he has to be the bad guy to get any kind of discipline in the house. He's working hard, and then coming home to work hard again with the kids in their school work (which I'm wondering why you're not helping anyway?)

He's doing all he can to give them structure and solid foundations for school and life, while you're doing all you can to reverse everything. He HAS to be ticked at you for little things like this...otherwise...you'd ALWAYS be letting them get away with something.

Feel free to reverse roles and see how hard it is to be the bad guy and enforce things...maybe then you'd understand why rules are so important. Your kids know they can get away with that with you...but not him...and that probably bugs him too.

Totally siding with DAD on this one.

Sorry.


PS - I REALLY find it hard to believe that 9pm is THE BEDTIME....yet SOMEHOW you guys all wound up an extra 20 minutes and were shocked that it ran past. lol...nice one! What are you...like...12 too? My son's bedtime is 8pm...which means at 7:30, he's starting his pre-bedtime rituals. No way this just crept up without anyone knowing. BS

PPS - You'd be better off just telling hubby he is totally right, and you are weak, and gave in....but that's why you love him, and you will try harder in the future. :p
 

jenilouise

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Oct 20, 2007
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You know what- my kids have a 9:00 bedtime too but they know if they have been good and a movie starts at 8 orsomething I'll let them stay up until it's over. Maybe in the future it could be planned ahead of time so no-one gets upset about it?
 

Ari2

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Jan 7, 2008
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Have the two of you had a private, positive, looooong discussion about expectations and roles with regard to your children? And were you specific? I think any two people involved in raising kids (his, her, theirs, whatever) should have these discussions, ideally before any issues could arise.

If you haven't, perhaps you should go to a neutral location (like a restaurant that will allow you to linger a bit) and talk in great detail about the roles each you want to play, how common and uncommon-but-important situations would ideally play out, what you want from each other as parent and step-parent, etc.

If this is the first time you have set a rule and then given in, I can't blame him for being upset. Ditto if the kids' later activity kept him awake. But if this isn't part of a pattern of you not enforcing the rules, then the two of you might need to talk about the difference between what is ideal (everyone follows every rule) versus what is real and the occasional need to make exceptions.

If this is a first-time problem, I would wonder if he is angry at a different but related problem such as saying to him you will do/not do something and then failing to follow through.

The first year of marriage is tough! I'm sure it is even tougher with issues about kids/step-kids! I hope the two of you are just in the process of working through some of the bumps and smoother sailing is ahead.
 

musicmom

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Dec 4, 2007
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I am very disciplined when it comes to my children. I raise them. I set the rules. My children's bedtime is 8:30 and I know they won't settle down until 9pm. I think I let them stay up once till ten and they paid for it in the morning when they had to be awake at 7am. Your older kids I think ten o'clock is fine, the little one's should have been in bed.
But the fact remains you are BOTH parents and you have a say on occasion to keep your children up without your husbands consent. If you do it all the time then there is an issue with being the push-over. Your husband could also be very controlling and needs to let go a bit.
My husbands father is also a Dr and he tried that really strict crap with me..........I set him straight real quick. ;)
 

Sybella

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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LOL! Foos...thanks. I see now that my husband isn't the only one who sees things through a perfectly clear window, with no room for smudges. And I don't mean this as an attack. Though you did call me 12. LOL! But, lighten up. Or you'll miss what life really has to offer, in all it's little facets. Not everyone is the same, and that is the beauty of it.

I do try to help my kids with the homework, and frankly, I am MUCH better at it. My kids prefer to come to me because I am patient and kind. My kids ask me, and my man rushes over to answer first. It's quite annoying. My husbands tends to be impatient and short, expecting too much out of them and it shows. They get frustrated and then get called on it, for having an "attitude." I find myself defending them, saying that it's not an attitude, just frustration, and I have to remind my man to be more patient. I realize that he's trying very hard, going from no kids to 3 practically over night. But my man is impatient and overly critical, of everyone, even himself.

But here's the real problem when it comes to us, and Foos, part of what you said was true but NOT because I'm weak. When I do parent my children in front of him, he overrides me. I try to provide a unified front so in a way, I let him. Then he gets mad because he thinks I don't parent enough. I do want him to have an active role. I have called him on stepping over me. But frankly, it's easier on our relationship to let him do the parenting himself if we are home together...he asked for that. He wanted an active part, to make him feel as if he has a purpose with the kids, rather than an "outsider" to a woman with kids.

He had real issues in the beginning of our relationship because we dated for a full six months before he even MET my kids. I wanted to make sure he was going to be a permanent fixture before I brought him into their lives. It bothered him, that he was separate, that I had a life, and I went to visit him out side of that "real life."

And believe it or not, I AM a dominant personality. I just have a more passive approach to parenting because I realize that each child is their own person, and I enjoy them for who they are, and who they are becoming. I am NOT a disciplinarian, nor will I ever be. My father yelled at me for everything. I hated him for that, and I will not be the person my father was. As a parent, I do have control. We do play a lot but my kids know when I mean it and do not run over me, ever. It's just that my husband and I don't seem to agree on when the rules should be firm rules or merely guidelines. What's the harm in flexing bedtime an hour once in a while? It's a freakin' bedtime! LOL!

So, we are back to where we were...if any of you have suggestions on what I can say to persuade my guy to ease up on his disciplinarian attitude, I'm all ears. I would really appreciate it, sincerely.

'Bella

PS. In bringing this up, and adding more details, I've realized that I've brought more to the table than I originally intended...I'm sorry and thanks. Really. We have a lot to talk about, as a couple, and it's not just the kids. ;) But I still need "support" for my "argument." LOL!
 

FooserX

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Jul 11, 2007
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<SIZE size="100">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;It's just that my husband and I don't seem to agree on when the rules should be firm rules or merely guidelines. What's the harm in flexing bedtime an hour once in a while? It's a freakin' bedtime! LOL!



Well if it's anything like me and my wife, you probably flex your rules a lot more than "once in a while."

But this post is adding a LOT more to the table than the first. I'm nothing like what you described in this one. You sure make him out to be mean now.


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Shacoya

Junior Member
Jan 10, 2008
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Hmm, It is definitely time to sit with him and explain that when it comes to:

RULES - meaning the important ones that don't slide by "just because" and

GUIDELINES - as in preferably it will be a certain way, but sometimes, for many reasons, (decided by the parent at the time) it is alright to go beyond the norm.

{Rules AND Guidelines}
There are differences between the two which is what you keep asking how to explain - correct?

My advice is:

If you and he sit down, and first just generically state that for you there are these two different definitions; then the two of you should be able to work out a compromise between what behavior fits in which category. He can have set RULES you might not agree with, but can make a concession on, just as you can have GUIDELINES he might not agree with but he can make a concession on.
If he understands that you are not being a pushover, OR totally rule less, I think he will feel more like you are working together to parent the children, and not like he is working on his own and you are undoing his attempts at being a parent. He is new at this. But he is your new Partner, and by marrying him he is now a co-parent.
I don't get the impression you are trying to exclude him. I agree a united front is to be desired, but don't totally let him run the show when he is "there". Just as you should not override him, or run the show either. You're a team!
The ideal - both for the two of you and your relationship, and especially for the children, is for you to do the best to work out this separation of category the best you can <I>now</I>. There will of course be some things that you just can't plan for ahead of time, but when the situation arises "give" each other the benefit of the doubt (agree to this beforehand also).

Did that help at all? I don't want to assume you are "like" my husband and I or anyone else, but am trying to do my best at helping you with the situation as you state it.
(((HUG)))
~ Shacoya
 

Sybella

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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Ah, let me see if I can clarify where I am with the guidelines vs rules issue with examples. There are certain things that MUST be done, like homework.

When it is due the next, I require that it is done by the end of the day. He requires it to be done by a certain time well before dinner. If the homework is assigned on a Friday and isn't due until the next week, he gets irritated at them for not having it done before the weekend. I don't see what the problem is, and frankly the kids don't get it yet either but they will adjust to him, to his expectations. Kids learn their parents individually. If the kids want to use up their weekend time on homework, that is fine by me. It gives them something to do on those days that last forever to them. I am not going to force them to do it on Friday but if he wants to, that's his deal. I'd rather enjoy my kids, and save the confrontations for things that matter more. In my mind, the kids will figure out how to prioritize if given the room to do so...always scheduling them doesn't necessarily make them self-reliable. It makes them rely on outside influences.

Other things, like bed times have no real outside consequences and can be flexed. Sure, if it's too late, they drag the next day...but an hour doesn't make a real difference if they are caught up to begin with.

I don't make the kids work by the clock; never have. It's new to the kids to have someone in the home that does, and new to me to have to find a way to partner someone who is so clock-orientated. As I've already pointed out, he is the first one to take an active role in their livelihood. He's a good man, and he's all in. I accept that we are different and think our differences are beneficial.

We did have a talk the other night. He is the type that blows up and then does the right thing in the end. But I suspect with this one, we will have numerous talks.

Shacoya, thanks for the suggestions. ;)

Foos, you think I made him out to be mean?? I reread my last post. I don't see what you're seeing. How was I mean?

'Bella
 

FooserX

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Jul 11, 2007
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Sybella said:
Foos, you think I made him out to be mean?? I reread my last post. I don't see what you're seeing. How was I mean?




&gt;&gt;&gt;My kids prefer to come to me because I am patient and kind. My kids ask me, and my man rushes over to answer first. It's quite annoying. My husbands tends to be impatient and short, expecting too much out of them and it shows. They get frustrated and then get called on it, for having an "attitude." I find myself defending them, saying that it's not an attitude, just frustration, and I have to remind my man to be more patient.
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To me, you make him sound like kinda an ass there. Maybe that's just me. :)[/COLOR]
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That does seem a bit strict that he would force the kids to do homework on a Friday night...but I suppose that is better than not pay any attention at all, and then being shocked when your kid brings home bad grades.[/COLOR]
 

Sybella

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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Ah, ok...yeah, maybe that does make him sound mean. And I guess, on some level it is. But I was trying to point out the differences, our differences, more than anything else. It's easy to go overboard when you first start a project, until you find your footing. Until you figure out what works for you and learn the medium you are working with, there is an adjustment period. Sometimes the more important thing to learn is what doesn't work for you.

He was raised completely different than I was, as I mentioned in my first post. From the start, his parents were more structured and enforced discipline...my mom was more lax with me, and because my father had an explosive temper, childcare was her department per their agreement. My parents were hippies, attended Woodstock and everything. His parents demanded a much more conservative environment. Like I said, his father is a doctor. His mom is so opinionated that he tends to avoid her as an adult...which is kind of funny since I am opinionated as well. What is that going to say about us in 20 years? LOL! I get along with his mother just fine but all her kids complain about the same thing, that she voices her opinions without realizing how hurtful she can be. I think one can choose not to take things as personal attacks...but perhaps that is a learned skill, one I have yet to master as it seems to be conditional, on who the comment comes from.

Regarding homework on Friday night, he doesn't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be done by dinner on the day it was issued. It doesn't matter if it is Monday or Friday. And he's all over them about schoolwork and grades...he's great about follow-up. And while I don't disagree about the unreasonable part, I also don't agree with that particular item needing to be a stern rule.

Life doesn't allow everyone to meet "extra" rules. It's hard enough to keep regular priorities scheduled and done timely, without adding a pile of extraneous. No matter how perfect the plans you make, life has a way of getting in the way. Instead of setting up more stress, by imposing deadlines and having to back up your words, I'd much rather focus on the ones that really matter.

That's another thing...he likes to have notice, to make plans ahead of time. I don't. When I make plans, they end up changing anyway. It is much easier not to plan and enjoy what comes your way. Perhaps this is another aspect of structured childrearing, how we cope as adults.

Speaking of "planning ahead," it's kind of funny now but we fought for our first holiday as a couple. I assumed, since he was my significant other and had been for 6 months, he would be attending the festivities with me. It was Easter, a day all about the kids, for whom he had just started spending time with. The closer it got to the holiday, I began to wonder a bit but couldn't put my finger on the problem...it almost seemed he was avoiding holiday conversation.

Looking back, perhaps I should have asked him what was on his mind but I didn't. Perhaps he should have asked me what the plans were for Easter, questions about what we usually did, but he didn't do that either. With Easter, I'm fortunate. Mom does everything and all I have do to is show up with the kids. So in my mind, there were no plans to discuss. I can tell you why I didn't ask him what was going on...I'm of the mind that if something is wrong and it concerns me, the person will tell me. I don't assume it's all about me, or that everything needs immediate discussion...sometimes things just need a little time, for cool down, for clarity, for processing. But I still don't know why he never asked me questions. Perhaps he doesn't know either. I could make assumptions but I'm not going to.

Finally, the day of, I realized there was definitely something wrong. I was getting ready and he took no interest in what I was doing. I was hurt and said, "Aren't you going with me to my parents?" He told me he wasn't. And I could tell that he was mad that I asked him.

I got to my parent's and Mom asked me where my man was, and what was wrong...I said I didn't know exactly but I thought I was being punished for not asking correctly. He never did show up that day. I called once to ask if he was sure he didn't want to pop over, but it just resulted in more fighting.

It turned out that he had expected an express invitation well ahead of time, and since I didn't give him one, he thought he was being treated as an afterthought. I didn't think I had to schedule holidays with my SO; I thought those days were already mine! (One doesn't tell their girlfriend on a major holiday, "Sorry honey, got plans with my friends from work!") He was never an afterthought, I just don't operate that way, with the planning ahead thing, nor does my family, who expected that he'd be there as well. Significant others are treated as family and family isn't given impersonal, formal invitations. Rather it's just expected, or assumed, they will be there. "Assumed" may be a better choice because "expected" sort of implies that the host will be put out if one doesn't show up. Again, go with the flow and all that. ;)

To get back to the topic, my point is, he's bringing new rules, structures and policies into my children's lives which I think is beneficial. However, they weren't raised the way he was, and until he realizes that, he wont be happy trying to force them into his mold of how he thinks things should be. Nor will I be happy being blamed for their "mistakes." He blames me for not providing the discipline he thinks they should have had already and my frustration with that is what brought me to this forum. He saw me letting them stay up an hour after bedtime as undoing all of his hard work. Riiiight. Which is the same thing that happens since I don't force them to complete their homework on Friday night. It will take time for them to figure out the new rules, and of course they're going to come to me...it's easier and more comfortable to stay with what you know.

I used to think he was the calm to my storm. I'm opinionated, bossy and strong-willed. But it seems to me that our roles have changed now that he thinks he has something to "fix," now that there are kids in his life. But how do you make one understand that it's just different, not broken?

'Bella
 

FooserX

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Jul 11, 2007
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<SIZE size="100">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm of the mind that if something is wrong and it concerns me, the person will tell me.

lol...well let me enlighten you and save you years of frustration - people aren't always going to tell you when something is wrong. :)

You said your hubby thought he wasn't invited for Easter, but then you spend a paragraph explaining why you thought you didn't have to. It doesn't matter! He thought one thing, and you thought another...it's not his fault, and it's not yours...it's both your faults for not communicating :p

Sounds to me like you're just new to marraige and parenting with this man, so these are all normal issues.

Plus keep in mind not all fights are about what you are fighting about. Sometimes there are deeper issues, and it's just easier to bicker over "rules" than what is really the problem.


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Sybella

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2008
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Ok...NOW I'm getting a bit defensive.

I didn't say it did matter, nor did I blame him or me...who cares if I spent a paragraph explaining why I didn't have to issue a personal invitation. I shared that because it helped explain our differences, how "discipline" as a child makes us different people as an adult. How can anyone make an educated suggestion without understanding the people in situation? I came here for advice. I can't expect or even hope that one can give constructive or useful suggestions with only a partial understanding. Advice is only useful if it actually pertains.

Enlighten me? Years of frustration? Believe me, I'm not frustrated or unhappy by my decision to patiently wait for the other to tell me if something is bothering them, and if it concerns me. Sometimes someone just comes home grumpy from work and no communication is needed. No "enlightenment" in this department is necessary. Have you ever been on the other end, been around someone who constantly thought a serious look on your face meant you were mad at them for something? I have. I used to live with a bi-polar girl, who asked me nearly every day what was wrong, what did she do? She thought it was all about her. Ugh.

And Foos, I never said it wasn't normal issues. I also said, in the first post, that it was a new marriage. You're just figuring this out? Boy did I waste a lot of time with my explanations.

Look, I came here for advice regarding our differences with the children, our parenting styles. I would like him to ease a bit in his structured mentality. What what might really be helpful is pros and cons of discipline, from other's perspectives. If you don't want to help, don't. But do not "advise" me in other areas, please. This is a parenting forum.

'Bella
 

FooserX

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Jul 11, 2007
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Calm down.

Okay then...I think you guys make a good team. He's the law, and you're the sugar. Your kids will get the best of both worlds. :)

I'm more in favor of discipline and structure, but I love that my wife (and this forum) keeps me in check by reminding me that kids need to experience childhood in all its glory. I believe after reading your first post, I went home and let my 4 year old stay up until 10pm on a Friday night just because I thought it was important that the does get to bend the rules now and then.

Sorry if you took things the wrong way, Bella...not my intention.
 

Skyburning

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Oct 6, 2007
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I'm sorry, I'm going to have to side with "Dad" on this one. Not because it's not okay to bend the rules..but because it does appear that it was snuck by him. I would have been upset too, if I had agreed upon a rule with my SO, and then had him change it while I was away. I think the solution is to sit down with him and decide which rules are bendable, and when (as others have suggested).
 

musicmom

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Dec 4, 2007
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FooserX said:
Calm down.

Okay then...I think you guys make a good team. He's the law, and you're the sugar. Your kids will get the best of both worlds. :)

I'm more in favor of discipline and structure, but I love that my wife (and this forum) keeps me in check by reminding me that kids need to experience childhood in all its glory. I believe after reading your first post, I went home and let my 4 year old stay up until 10pm on a Friday night just because I thought it was important that the does get to bend the rules now and then.

Sorry if you took things the wrong way, Bella...not my intention.
That's a first...........you go Fooser. (psst, you have a brown nose again) lol:D