Proportioning of Responsibilities between Working Husband and Stay-at-Home Mom...

[Bob]

Hi all,

This is a very sensitive and important subject to me, so I really appreciate everyone's input.

My wife and I have been together more than 10 years and married for 5. We have two beautiful girls and I am completely in love with them.

I work full-time in a demanding high-tech job. I'm also studying full-time for my PhD (which will probably conclude in the next year). On average, I put in about 75 hours a week, sometimes peaking at 80+ hours (since January it's been 80 hours a week steadily). The salary is very good and has allowed us some decent creature comforts, though I do not enjoy any of them due to my long hours! The PhD will directly affect my job, both in salary and most importantly, job satisfaction.

My current schedule is that I start work very early so that I can be home at a reasonable time, have dinner and play with the kids. After they go to bed, I typically work on my thesis until the wee hours of the morning. Suffice it to say, I am stretched thin as far as time goes.

As a bit of a backstory, I've done my undergrad, masters and now PhD entirely on scholarships, so I've never had debt of any kind and saved up enough working Co-op and contracts to put a 30% down payment on our house (2 years ago). From the time my wife and I have been together, I have handled the majority of the finances. Any money my wife has made (and she worked hard when she did, do not doubt) went to paying down her student loans. The end result was 100% of the money she's made was to pay down her debt (so net contribution to our family financially was zero). I don't say this as a criticism, but rather as a justification for doing my PhD. I've worked hard, I would daresay harder than most, been the sole supporter of my family for its entire existence and I believe my goal of attaining my dream job is a reasonable one. My wife completely agrees and has been very supportive in this regard.

My wife chose to be a stay-at-home mom, of which I am immensely proud of her for. The brilliance and balanced nature of our children is a testament of my claim that she is the best mother I could ever ask for my children.

Here's where things become difficult. Basically, in every respect beyond the children, I have major issues with my wife. Given my hectic schedule and given my past efforts in supporting the family, I am of the mind that she should be responsible for nearly all of the household duties: dishes, laundry, groceries, cooking, household maintenance, maintaining our budget and so on. Without any fighting or argument, we agreed on this years ago. It was very mutual and it was quite nice to feel appreciated for the efforts I've put into the family (and continue to do so). The problem is, however, that all of these duties are on a very regularly basis ignored, slacked off or done half-heartedly. I feel that most times we don't eat healthy enough, the dishes pile up for disturbingly long stretches of time, asking to have certain clothing cleaned in time for work is like asking for the moon and there is no budget keeping to speak of.

The problem is, fundamentally, she does not enjoy the housework and indeed loathes it. I don't blame her at all (and I of course make this clear in my discussions with her). However, from my perspective, it is a sacrifice she needs to make for the sake of our family. The thing is, she has certainly made a major sacrifice by staying home with the kids. I just can't understand why she doesn't go all the way and maintain the household. As I say that, I feel as though I sound like a caveman... but you need to realize that 100% (and I mean literally 100%) of the finances has been handled by me alone - through undergrad and graduate studies, working contracts that I didn't want to, spending 3 hours on the bus everyday working a job I wanted no part of (years ago) all the while my wife didn't take her studies seriously enough and wracked up an enormous student debt. To add a bit of insult to injury for myself: I always find the time to play with and do things with the kids and I've been told by my wife, her friends and her family that they've never seen kids with such a good relationship with their dad. The only way I've accomplished this is by literally hurting myself in the process (I have no social life beyond my kids and I am seriously sleep deprived).

I feel as though even ignoring the past and just looking at the current workload that I'm under, it is not unreasonable to split the burden in the manner I've suggested. I guess the biggest problem is that it was mostly HER idea to split things like this and she still stands by this is how things should be split and yet, the effort is simply not made. She doesn't "like" doing laundry, or "like" doing dishes - I also didn't like taking the bus for 3 hours a day, but I did it so our family could grow.

The problem ultimately stems from her family. Her brothers are underachievers who wait around for fortune to shine on them and her mother has zero ambition and yet complains about how little money she makes. I can see very strong similarities between my wife and her family, but fortunately I also see similarities between her and her dad, who is a hard working individual. It's almost as though she's in conflict with a dual nature. I knew this in advance before marrying her and I had hoped that being with her and her seeing my work ethic, she would match my ambition and things would work out between us. But things certainly did not turn out as I had planned. Like I mentioned, many issues like piled up dishes and a disheveled house occur. Possibly worst of all, I was not following our finances for about 6 months and it turned out we were living well beyond our means and going over budget by $2,000 or more a month. I spend $0 a month. The problem was my wife was buying food out with the kids rather than preparing the food, buying them clothes that I really don't think they needed and also wasting enormous amounts of money on groceries that would just spoil because she wouldn't cook things in time. She was also visiting family during the day and going way over budget gas-wise. The budget thing basically brought everything to a head and made me question our marriage. I'm at the point now where I'm struggling to even love her. My current feelings says unequivocally that I would leave her if the kids weren't in the picture. But I really want my girls growing up with happy parents, parents that are together.

This is truly the goal I have in mind. I want to take steps to "fix" our marriage for the sake of our children, but I can't see it happening. The problem is once I'm done my PhD, I'll have a normal 40 hours a week and I'll be able to share the load. More over, once my wife starts working again, things can truly become balanced. That being said, in either situation I cannot see things working out because I am only going to feel resentment towards her because of how little she's pulled her weight during our marriage. The only time things have been equal in our relationship is when we had our first child and I wasn't working, had no courses and only had my thesis work to worry about - that lasted 4 months. And even then I was "super dad" and changed all the diapers, did the groceries, etc. etc..

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or opinions. In particular, I would ideally want to remain with my wife, fall in love again, and have my kids grow up in a loving household. As a worst-case scenario (at the very least) I would want to split from my wife but still ensure my kids grow up with happiness around them and with me in their life more than just weekends (I could never live apart from them). I'm just at a loss here because I love my kids so much but want to leave my wife so I can be happy in my home life.

Can anyone see any chance of reconciliation? If not, is there a manner in which we can live together, separated, but still somehow be individually happy? Can you envision our kids growing up balanced with parents that are amicable yet separated AND living in the same household? I just don't want to lose my girls - I couldn't be happy just 'visiting' them on weekends.

 

[xox.ilu.xox]

I am a stay at home mom as well. Hubby and I had a looooooooong talk when i decided to stay home, as daycare was out of our budget, and what i would make working part time wouldnt even pay for half of it. We agreed that I would be in charge of money, household stuff, cleaning, laundry, etc etc. I dont enjoy it, but for the sake of my family living in a nice clean home, and my husband having a home cooked meal to come home to, I do it. It took me a looooooong time to get into the groove of where I am now. I was a lot like you wife for the longest time, I just didnt have the drive to do it. but i noticed that my family was suffering for it. So i got my lazy ass off the couch and did something about it. its hard, but so worth it. I find i get more easily frustrated with my daughter because I am with her every waking moment, but never-the-less, i love her with my entire being. I say try and have a talk with your wife, sit down and discuss with her how you feel, and that you guys agreed years ago about what her duties were to be when she decided to stay home. Thats what my hubby and I did, and let me tell you, it worked wonders! Communication is definately key here! good luck!!!

 

[Bob]

I am a stay at home mom as well. Hubby and I had a looooooooong talk when i decided to stay home, as daycare was out of our budget, and what i would make working part time wouldnt even pay for half of it. We agreed that I would be in charge of money, household stuff, cleaning, laundry, etc etc. I dont enjoy it, but for the sake of my family living in a nice clean home, and my husband having a home cooked meal to come home to, I do it. It took me a looooooong time to get into the groove of where I am now. I was a lot like you wife for the longest time, I just didnt have the drive to do it. but i noticed that my family was suffering for it. So i got my lazy ass off the couch and did something about it. its hard, but so worth it. I find i get more easily frustrated with my daughter because I am with her every waking moment, but never-the-less, i love her with my entire being. I say try and have a talk with your wife, sit down and discuss with her how you feel, and that you guys agreed years ago about what her duties were to be when she decided to stay home. Thats what my hubby and I did, and let me tell you, it worked wonders! Communication is definately key here! good luck!!!

Hi there,

Thanks so much for your reply. I really appreciate it.

The problem is that this has been dragging on for more than 2 years. It comes to a head for different reasons probably every 6 months or so. First it was the house was a health hazard (dishes piling up) then it was unhealthy meals (grilled cheese, french fries, soup etc... every other night), followed by the budget fiasco. Recently it came to a head again because I realized the budget wasn't really being followed yet again, and the house in general is starting to slip again. I am very much in tune to the possibility of depression or something similar and I've made it very clear that if this is the case, we can certainly look into me delaying my PhD, etc... but from her perspective it's just fundamentally a case of being inherently unmotivated (as I mentioned this is a distinct family trait on her side). We've talked A LOT over the years, but nothing really changes. I think ultimately she's set in her ways and will never change. This is less of an accusation and more of a realization about people in general. We fell in love young and spent a great deal of time together outside of the context of having to share burdens and I think I just wasn't prepared for how disproportionate things would be and to her credit, she didn't realize how difficult some things would be (not difficult as in challenging, but tedious or mundane).

 

[mom2many]

I wouldn't suggest depression to her, she should see a professional and have it ruled out. There is more then a lack of motivation going on here.

I also am a SAHM to 8 with a working hubby, our house is pretty much split in a "traditional" way also. And while for you this would be your ideal reality, it isn't for your wife. As her partner it is your job to help were things are going wrong, now I do not mean you start doing all of the dishes or all of the laundry. There are other options that could make this work, but it means you letting go of all of your preconceived ideas of how your household should work.

A few suggestions..
1. hire a housekeeper to come in every few weeks. I know that when my house get's out of control, usually in the summer when everyone is home, that I can get to the point where I just don't care. Luckily I get out of it pretty quick.

2. Don't just bitch about the food she makes or her lack of proper shopping, spend an hour a week helping plan out the meals, offer to help with dishes after wards as a reward incentive.

3. Budget, I suck here cause there is always a unforeseen kid need but put XX amount of dollars in an envelope and specify exactly where it goes. And break it down, grocery's, entertainment, house keeper , clothes for kids, you get the idea.

4. List, you can help here, when making a menu plan out a shopping list of what is going to be needed, don't forget to add in snacks and such.

As for the kids having to many clothes....welcome to having kids, I am guilty myself the only difference is I shop a lot at second hand stores. I do buy new also but mix it up. Go shopping with her, look into second hand or consignment clothes, they are your children to and why should be the fun one and her always having to me the "mom".

You are the one that is going to have to bend, you admit that you knew what her tendencies were when you married her and had hoped that she would change. That is where it is your problem and that is where things are going to have to start. If you put in more effort she will most likely respond. A SAHM it is the small things that make a HUGE difference in how I keep things going.

 

[Bob]

You are the one that is going to have to bend, you admit that you knew what her tendencies were when you married her and had hoped that she would change. That is where it is your problem and that is where things are going to have to start. If you put in more effort she will most likely respond. A SAHM it is the small things that make a HUGE difference in how I keep things going.

The thing is, if I put in more effort, I'll probably die from exhaustion. I don't follow the logic of me putting in effort, when I'm already maxed out at working 70+ hours a week. The thing is, it's not as though we just have a difference of opinion and it's not my place to change her opinion. She's self admittedly lazy - is the solution not for her to <I>not</I> be lazy? None of her duties are challenging - they're just boring (which I definitely sympathize with).

As for the housekeeper - I absolutely refuse to do something like that. She spends a couple of hours every day watching TV, surfing the net, etc... that's what I'm trying to emphasize here - there's just no excuse to not take care of the house. Every time I suggest her going back to work, she says taking care of the kids is what is best.

 

[mom2many]

The thing is, if I put in more effort, I'll probably die from exhaustion. I don't follow the logic of me putting in effort, when I'm already maxed out at working 70+ hours a week. The thing is, it's not as though we just have a difference of opinion and it's not my place to change her opinion. She's self admittedly lazy - is the solution not for her to <I>not</I> be lazy? None of her duties are challenging - they're just boring (which I definitely sympathize with).

You have no clue how challenging it is then, you have obviously never taken care of kids and a household, you are the fun one, the more you say the clearer that becomes. If you were truly an active participant in the household you would know that it is more challenging to be at home and on duty 25/7. You have chosen the path your life is heading, you are the one going for a Phd, did you ever discuss that with her? Was this your choice or did she just go along with it? If you are stretched to thin, so thin that you can't even offer to help with a dish, maybe, just maybe it is you who needs to rethink priorities. What good is working 70+ hours a week when the family is suffering because of it? Ok so you can afford a few extra's in life but what is more important, the health of your family or...I don't know cable. Yes, your wife needs help, whether that is medical or a massive kick in the pants, but you are your childrens father for goodness sakes. A divorce isn't the answer, I can just picture it, the kids living in filth and an absent father cause he is working 70+ hours a week and by the time he has a moment for them he won't really be able to be an involved father cause of travel time, bed times, schooling schedules. You can sit back and moan and groan all you want but you are going to have to sacrafice to.

Being a SAHM or Dad is hard, it is isolating in a lot of situations. Yet you repeatedly, in a nice way, belittle her job. I am sorry I am usually not this harsh, but this is rubbing me the wrong way.

As for the housekeeper - I absolutely refuse to do something like that. She spends a couple of hours every day watching TV, surfing the net, etc... that's what I'm trying to emphasize here - there's just no excuse to not take care of the house. Every time I suggest her going back to work, she says taking care of the kids is what is best.

Hiring a housekeeper isn't about helping her shirk her duties, it's about helping her get a handle on things and helping her maintain the household in the manner that you want it. It's about giving her the motivation to <I>want</I> to keep the house in a neat and tidy fashion.

As for the tv and internet...I bet that's the only true adult conversation/entertainment that she get's.

 

[Bob]

I regret posting this comment because I can see that some people read things in detail, while other just gloss other things, get tidbits of information and then just say whatever comes to mind.

My wife definitely chose to stay at home. I would never force it upon her. She also has an out - if she wants to go back to work, I will gladly support her in doing so and have the kids taken care of elsewhere. But what she wants, and she ACTUALLY admits this, is to watch the kids and not take care of the household. This is, without a doubt, a ridiculous way to view things.

When I said her duties were not challenging, I refer ONLY to non-children related things. Doing the dishes, laundry and the like IS fundamentally easy but very boring work.

Like I said in the post, if my wife were to step up and handle her responsibilities, our family life would be difficult but we'd survive the next year as I finish my phd. I spend lots of time with my kids, especially considering how much I work. I get home, play with them, have dinner, play with them some more - I put them to bed and then do I get to relax? I work on my phd. I'm up to 2am, and then 4 hours of sleep I'm back to work. My wife? She shuts down once the kids are in bed. I understand the desire to do so, believe me I would love to just relax in the evenings, but in our current state of affairs, why can't my wife step up to the plate?

It's not like we don't see eye to eye on this - she knows things are lopsided. She just can't see putting in more than a normal days work, it's not how she was raised (her mother is about as lazy as they come, like I mentioned). But in our current situation she needs to do more than normal or average.

I guess people don't have the full picture - our kids sleep right through the night and sleep 11-12 hours. I sleep 4-5 hours. My wife sleeps 9 to 10 hours. Now you're telling me my wife couldn't sleep an hour or two less and simply make sure the house was clean while I'm working on my thesis? Maybe I should sleep 3-4 hours and do the dishes when I get home... it all seems so ridiculous when I type it out.

 

[Bob]

As for the tv and internet...I bet that's the only true adult conversation/entertainment that she get's.

Well, you'd be wrong. She visits her mother, sister-in-law and friends all throughout the week. I wouldn't begrudge her in the least, if at the very least the house was clean in the process. I mean, right now, the entire 1st floor is covered in toys and I just returned from getting a glass of water and I found the kitchen floor caked in food. This is every night - and she spent the entire day at her mom's. Marriage is about balance, and I don't see the fair share.

 

[Xero]

Well, I do tend to agree a little with BOTH sides of this argument. I think, and I SO hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but I think things are a lot different between a SAHM with 2 kids and a SAHM with 8 kids. I mean, with 8 kids, the kids alone and what they need are enough to keep you so occupied that the dishes and laundry can go screw themselves lol, you know? Raising and caring for 8 kids and a house where 8 kids live would be harder work than any full time job I could think of, heck harder than TWO full time jobs! And at least you're getting paid for those! lol

But that's just what comes to my mind right at first. Now in my shoes, DH and I (for the moment) only have one child. Sure he's demanding, but gosh its not that hard, he's only one kid for goodness sakes. Right now DH and I kind of share household responsibilities, although the larger half is on my end, because we both work. He works full time and I work part time, so I actually think it works out in a very balanced manner. We both contribute to pretty much everything. However, there was one point where DH was working full time and I was staying at home with DS. I honestly look back and can genuinely say that if I didn't do basically all of the household upkeep that I should have been ashamed of myself. There WERE times that I let it slip, but it wasn't for good reason. I was just being lazy and unmotivated. DH was out busting his butt all day at work running on like no sleep and then coming home and loving on our child, even feeding him and changing his diaper all the time too, and I was at home doing whatever I wanted. Now, obviously there were things I HAD to do, like everything involved with taking care of a baby, but otherwise it was my choice if and when I was to do anything else (which is not how it works in the employment world). It was only fair in my eyes that I did the cleaning and the cooking and the laundry etc. With two people and a baby, I'm sorry but its NOT that hard. So what was I doing during those times that I neglected the dishes and laundry and cooking etc? I was... sitting on the computer, reading a book, playing the Xbox, taking a nap, etc etc. All options that I'm sure DH would have been thrilled to have at work, but of course that's unrealistic. I have done both, working and staying at home with my kid, and I would choose staying home ANY DAY over working. Its easier, its more relaxed, I do things on my own schedule, I am doing all of it for someone I love dearly, and I get to be in the comfort of my own home. Being a SAHM to one (and I might venture to say two) kid(s) is pretty dang easy and enjoyable. That's just my opinion though, maybe other people have extremely demanding kids and impatient personalities, but I don't know.

Let me tell you what though, I had a SAHM to us six kids and that lady didn't GET a break. We were up her butt all day and night. She might try to watch a show but she may or may not ever get to the end of it because she'd have to pause it every five seconds to tend to one of us (DVR is incredibly necessary with that many kids lol). The little ones had her up at night, the older ones were waking her up to sign stuff in the morning, someone was always crying or getting hurt, someone always wanted something from her, I mean it was never ending. Luckily for her she had older kids to help her with the household chores (unfortunately I have to be mean about this, because she literally had us do everything for her, you didn't see that woman wash a dish or fold a towel for years) but if she didn't she'd probably just never sleep. If she wasn't using us for housekeepers though, things WOULD have slipped and BAD. There's just not enough time in a day to get everything done and done right by yourself.

So to me there are two very different spectrums to this. I think that I am on one end and maybe M2M is on the other. I personally think that your wife is closer to my end though. How old are your daughters? I just think that there's no good excuse not to be doing a good job while all you have to worry about are two kids and a house. You are working SO HARD to get the best future possible for your family, the least she could do is grow out of the laziness (sorry but I don't think this is a permanent personality trait that people are "just like" heck, anybody would be lazy if they thought they could get away with it - I don't like working and taking care of the house etc I'd rather be watching TV and playing the Xbox but I know what I SHOULD be doing and I DO IT because that's what's RIGHT) and clean up the house and try to cook healthy meals. Its really not asking that much. That's just the way I am though, if my DH was doing as much as you are just for our benefit, I would NEVER expect him to come home to a dirty house or a crappy dinner every day. It just seems so.... ungrateful. :/

As far as spending over budget, see that's something that I have never understood. I will say that I spend a lot of money on DS's clothes (you might not think they need them, but you'd be surprised, and mom just knows more about this than you) and that really just what it is with kids. I spend a lot of money on him in general. However, I do not ever spend money that we don't have. I know how much money we have at all times, and once the bills are paid and the groceries are bought and everything else mandatory and important is taken care of, THEN I spend on less necessary stuff, and only what we have left. I am just as concerned about money and budgetting as DH is, and we are very careful with our money. We are not in debt. I plan to keep it this way. Being unconcerned about this seems crazy to me, childish even. Sorry to say it.

Things you could do:

I personally would give her two options: try to do a better job (no need to make her feel like things have to be perfect, but a lot better maybe) or go back to work and pay for a housekeeper to do a better job than she is. Because somebody's got to do it. You barely have enough time to work, eat, sleep and breathe, its NOT FAIR to expect you to do a whole lot (take the garbage out or put away a clean load of dishes whatever but anything more than that would just be rediculous IMO). You can't just spend every day "being there for your kids" and doing nothing else. Its wonderful to be there for your kids, but what good does it do them to eat junk all the time and live in filth. If she's not doing work at home, then she can go do work out in the world and bring home some money to show for it. Its not so easy to neglect your responsibilities when you have a boss who has fire power breathing down your neck and giving you orders. JMHO

Another option would be like, friendly motivation. One thing that helps both DH and myself get things done is that we motivate each other. On a day when one of us would probably just not get up off the couch once we're done with work, the other will usually stand up at some point and say "come on, let's do the dishes" or "come on, lets do the laundry" or "what should we make for dinner, lets look" etc etc. Even if one of us still stays on the couch and the other gets started, the first one always ends up getting up to help. Gently motivate her to get things moving in a friendly way, one that suggests you're there to help but that you REALLY feel it needs to be done and now.

If she has a problem with what you're doing (getting the PhD etc) then I would surely hope she would say something. I have been with DH for 6 years and well, I would say something! If that truely is the problem between you guys, that you are doing too much and spending not enough time contributing to the family, then you need to talk it out and well, maybe you could put it off for a few more years. You have the rest of your life to further your education, but only one chance to have a happy family. Always put them first, not your job or your education, although they are extremely important and do pertain to your family they are not #1.

Budgetting: I love the mention from M2M about the money in envelopes. My parents do that with their money. They have an envelope for EVERYTHING, very clearly marked with an appropriate amount of money in each for each month. Groceries, perscriptions, bills, emergencies, and SPENDING etc. I don't do it myself but I think its very smart, especially if you are one of those people that might have trouble keeping track or controlling yourself.

Also, don't be crazy about it. Remember that things should be allowed to slip a little. Dishes sit around a couple of days - okay, a couple of weeks - no. Laundry gets a little piled up - yes, nobody has clean clothes - no. An oven pizza or chicken fingers and french fries for dinner once every week or two - sure, every other night - no. Going $50 over budget - oops, going $1,000 over budget - not oops. Know what I mean? Make sure you're not expecting her to be perfect, but just doing a reasonably good job. Kids ARE demanding and everybody does need time to themselves and time to relax. I just think that there is a line to be drawn somewhere, you know?

 

[Xero]

I regret posting this comment because I can see that some people read things in detail, while other just gloss other things, get tidbits of information and then just say whatever comes to mind.

My wife definitely chose to stay at home. I would never force it upon her. She also has an out - if she wants to go back to work, I will gladly support her in doing so and have the kids taken care of elsewhere. But what she wants, and she ACTUALLY admits this, is to watch the kids and not take care of the household. This is, without a doubt, a ridiculous way to view things.

Don't feel bad about posting anything, you wont always have everyone agreeing with you, and its SO hard to paint a clear picture for people over the internet to 100% understand what its like to be in your shoes and how to judge that situation appropriately, you know? Also, you'll find different viewpoints and opinions no matter where you go - take them all with a grain of salt, but remember they are all worth something and they are all meaningfull. Everyone has different feelings about the SAHM thing, its just one of those topics, you know?

It is incredibly ridiculous to think you can possibly be doing the right thing by just watching/being there for your kids and doing nothing else. Not only is that not fair, but it makes no sense either. Even at a daycare, where people get PAID to "watch" other people's kids all day long, they are still very much required to clean up after said kids and keep the daycare clean and provide healthy food etc. If all I ever did was "watch" my kid, heck I'd be doing basically nothing. He's 3.5 and he kind of does his own thing, sleeps all night, never gets into anything he's not supposed to, fully potty trained, heck the worst of my job would be feeding and bathing him. Aside from that, she is doing NO good at ALL by her kids by letting them live in a disgusting, probably unsafe environment and filling them with junk for food all the time. You're not the only one affected by this neglect, actually the children are affected much much more. Just in that sense alone, I don't see how she has much concern for their daily health and well being, so what IS she doing for them???

I mean, right now, the entire 1st floor is covered in toys and I just returned from getting a glass of water and I found the kitchen floor caked in food. This is every night - and she spent the entire day at her mom's. Marriage is about balance, and I don't see the fair share.

That really is gross and unacceptable. I'm really sorry you have to deal with that. I mean don't get me wrong, sometimes my kid's toys end up all over the floor and stay there for a couple days lol, but I don't let anything nasty and unsanitary happen like food caking the floors. I think this is probably going to take some work between you guys but I also think its 100% doable and you guys really can be okay. Just stay really open and honest with her, always let her know how the situation makes you feel and that you really want to change things. I know you don't have any time left to work with, but if you can squeeze some counceling in there somewhere that might even do you guys some good - its amazing to have that nonbiased third party there to help you guys communicate, and it could really be worth it.

 

[singledad]

OK, I haven't read all the responses in detail, so I may be repeating what has already been said, but here is my take:

My wife was a SAHM - that was a decision we made together when we decided to have children. She wanted to be there for her children, and I wanted my children to be brought up by a parent, not a teacher / nanny /anyone who gets paid to care.

Our relationship had evolved our many years (we were together, off and on, for 14 years before we got married) and by the time we got married, we had both come to view a marriage as a partnership. Each spouse has to give some inputs, and as a reward both gets a lot out. We also saw our relationship as something separate from the family or the "household", that had to be nurtured and looked after if we were going to stay in love. So with that in mind, we had a discussion when she was pregnant, about what our roles and responsibilities would be. Obviously, I would contribute financially, and she would contribute by doing the house work. That would be our contribution towards the family and the household. I believe that is more or less where you also are.

However, what we forgot, and what also don't seem to understand, is that this only takes care of keeping the household running and the kids healthy and happy. Her doing the housework and you brining in the money, does nothing to nurture your relationship, and when I read your posts it sounds to me like your relationship is falling victim to too much resentment and too little love. We reached that point too, and it was a terrible feeling.

This is going to sound silly, but in the end we saved our relationship, and possibly our marriage, by starting to do the dishes together. It wasn't about me helping her with the housework, because frankly the dishes were a drop in the bucket. It forced us to spend at least 20 minutes or so together in the kitchen, talking. Within weeks, what used to be a chore she would grumble about and I would grumble about her grumbling about, became precious time spent together that neither of us would have given up for the world.

When last did you spend time just being her friend and lover, as opposed to being the bread-winner? (You don't have to answer that here)

Another I thing I want to say is this:
Right now, you are chasing a dream. There is nothing wrong with that, and I am glad that she supports you in that. I was a lot like that - OK, I wasn't working on a PhD, but I was putting 150% into my work, because to me the most important thing was to be brilliant at my job, and to give my family everything they could ever wish for. I believed that by working long hours and making good money, and by spending extra time studying new technologies and finding better ways to do things, I was being a good husband and father. On the last day of my wife's life, I spent 6 hours at the office. It was Saturday. I will never, ever get to spend those six hours with her again, but I will have the rest of my life to wonder about whether or not I was right in believing that what I was doing was more important than spending time with her.

If you lost you wife tomorrow, will those hours spent working still seem worth while? (You don't have to give us the answer to this either, but do think about it. It can happen more quickly and suddenly that anyone would want to imagine.)

You may notice that I didn't say a word about how you should proportion the chores or whether or not you have a reason to feel resentful. To me, who is wrong and who is right is less important than the fact that neither of you are happy. You will not gain happiness by "winning the fight". You need to find a solution, and the two of you are going to have to work together to find it, not against each other.

 

[Jeremy+3]

I work a minimum of 80 hours a week, if I give myself time off when I got back it means I have to increase my hours to get back on track. Yet I don't use that as an excuse to do nothing but moan when I get home.

My wife and I wanted one of use to stay at home to raise our children, my wife won that one and so so far she has given up her work, she did not give up her job to be a cleaner. Yeah, she could make sure the house is spotless all the time, but then we might as well send the children to nursery as they wouldn't be getting the time with their mum that they need.

If you have the time to be on here moaning and moaning at your wife then you have time to do the washing up and wash your own clothes.

I don't understand why people get married with the hopes of their partner changing, you marry because you love the person you marry, you don't love what you want to make them become. She is your wife, she is not your mother.

 

[lovebeingamum]

It sounds to me like there is more going on than she just isn't keeping up to her end of the bargain.

Your wife may be feeling a little depressed and resentful of you working so much. I don't know how you approach her to talk about it, but how you approach things can affect the outcome somewhat.

Not to pick on you, but it seems like you feel you have worked hard, you are successful and if she doesn't rise up to that level that is it. I mean you've said it yourself, if it wasn't for the kids you were thinking of giving up.

I would suggest spending a bit more time with her like singledad says, even if it is only for 20 mins. It is still showing you are interested in her and how she feels.

I also think that perhaps you could try approaching your wife in a different way; such as asking her if there is anything wrong, and how can you help her sort it out.

Obviously I can't give an official diagnosis of depression, but I think you should consider that may be an issue here rather than getting angry that she is not fulfilling her side of things.

You say that she worked hard for the money to pay of her debts, so it seems a bit odd to me that she would go from working hard to not caring, which is why I think it's not coping rather than laziness.

 

[MomoJA]

My first observation is that your love for your wife should not die due to her lack of housekeeping and cooking skills/desires. There is more going on here than perhaps you even realize.

I agree that those things should be her duty and she should do them, but I also agree that she sounds depressed, and who wouldn't be with a husband who is gone all the time and when he is home closes himself off in his studies. (no offense to you, but that's the reality of her life.)

If you ever loved your wife, and I'm not suggesting you didn't, hark back to those days. It wasn't about keeping house, so hire a housekeeper, if you can afford it, and encourage her to get involved in something or to get a part time job.

I have to go now, but I have more to say on this.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

my first thought was... don't you have a dishwasher?
there are many things that could help around the house -- from appliances to shopping deliveries. They save a lot of time and make work much easier.

Also, depends what you demand from her. Well, for example, I remember my grandmother used to scrub floors every single day, cook three-course dinners daily, where one of the dishes included home-made ravioli, never used a washing machine or a vacuum cleaner (to save electricity). And... raised her children (two sons) to think, that men go to work, women clean the house. If a woman doesn't clean -- she's bad. Oh well, I assume it is quite hard for a man raised this way to find exactly such a woman, as my grandmother defined.

And I personally think she should really go to work. Probably she is depressed and doesn't have much self-esteem to start again. Probably she is afraid that it won't change anything, if she doesn't bring an equal share.

does she have any hobbies? like arts and crafts?

What else... looking after children is hands full. The less there are -- the harder it is. If to give more time to housework, it costs thetime spent with children. For example, if you take your kids to daycare, you want the nanny to look after them whole the time, not leaving them to clean the carpets, cook dinners, and do gardening.

 

[Trina]

I've been a SAHM 14 years (former teacher) and my husband is an IT Director who works 80-100 hrs. a week. I take care of about 98% of the housework, but he does chip in. He's better with finances, so that's his thing. As newlyweds 22 yrs. ago we made a pact that whoever didn't cook dinner has to do the dishes. I cook every night so he does the dishes. He insists on keeping our original deal. We take turns taking out the trash and tending to the family pets. If he's sick or stressed with work I will quietly do his dishes and he will do chores for me if/when I'm unable to for whatever reason. We are a team and we work together. It's important not to take each other for granted.

All that said, now that our kids are older and in school it's much easier for me tend to chores but when they were little and home 24/7 it could be very overwhelming at times. My husband had no idea and got frustrated when the house wasn't in top form. Then I went away for a long weekend. What he thought would be an "easy peasy" weekend turned out to be a real eye opener for him. He was VERY happy to see me return. "HOW do you do THIS every day?! I had NO idea how demanding it is to stay home with the kids! You need more breaks!"

 

[TabascoNatalie]

we made a pact that whoever didn't cook dinner has to do the dishes.

that's so cool! (i wonder how it works having a dishwasher)

i remember reading i na local newspaper. there was a small rubric about a daddy, who was full-time at work, and he thought his wife was havinga holiday of a maternity leave. There was an experiment to switch them places. And on the very first day the daddy changed his mind -- mommy wasn't on the holiday.

 

[NancyM]

Bob OMG I feel for both of you.

This is still the age old debate, and your arguments are strong and probably justified. Not to diminish your frustration but I'd be very interested to hear her side. lol Like all of us who've been through this I bet her story is completely opposite of what you are saying. lol

My point is that there is really no right or wrong to your situation. If you can take a step back for a minute, take a breath, and really look at your wife, you will probably see the truth because you love her.

Obviously Bob she isn't into the whole SAH housewifey thing.

What IS she good at? There must be something, and if it's taking care of the kids well, let that be. Can't you possible just hire someone to do the things she isn't good at, now WAIT, if you can afford to spend $2000.00 a month on willy nilly, than why not put that same money into getting things done and just moving on without blaming anyone..

Your situation isn't going to last forever, you will eventually get your PHD and your children will be grown enough to the point where your wife will be able to get out of the house and back into the work force soon enough.

Stay at home mothers are just people too. We become someone else after so many years. It really isn't as easy as it seems emotionally and psychologically, and just because we choose to stay home doesn't mean we can do everything well.

I'm not taking her side either, because if I had someone like you working as hard as you do, to give your family so much, I would really appreciate that and would be happy to take care of our family at home. 100% but that's me.

Good luck, maybe you should consider talking to a therapist so you can vent your frustration.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Bob, you mentioned that your wife's family wasn't very ambitious. But you could encourage your wife to study. maybe not to a degree level, but a vocational course? like nursing or teaching? to get a real profession.
then you and your wife would feel more equal.
SAHM shouldn't be treated like a servant.

maybe... some take-away or restaurant meals would be nice (to relieve your wife of cooking sometimes

 

[Xero]

I was thinking that about household items to make things easier too if you don't already have them, I know they are a necessity for DH and I since we both work lol. For instance, a dishwasher (couldn't live without it!!!) is the only thing that keeps my dishes done, and a really nice functional vacuum makes vacuuming easier, and a swiffer wet jet or steam cleaner for the kitchen floor makes it so much easier to just swipe things up when they happen, my son's toys all go into their own organized drawers, and so on...