Re: Hello...

[NeeingHelp]

I am not a parent. I was raised in a loving family. That is my perspective.

I would like opinions on a family situation I am witnessing.

I live in an apartment with a young family above me, parents in their twenties, two children, one in preschool, the other in first grade.

I have had noise complaints about them many times. The first time, I introduced myself to the father and explained the situation. He promptly blamed his children and said there was nothing he could do about it.

PART of the noise is his children, as they allow them to run and jump inside. They run, hit something, fall and cry. Because the parents have no concept of an inside voice, I hear almost everything they say. When the kids fall, they mock them, laugh and call them stupid.

Sometimes for no apparent reason to me, one of the children starts wailing. I use the word wailing because it seems so different than a child crying to me. Sometimes the child wails constantly for over an hour. The parents either ignore this or scream and tell him to shut the F up. I often have to leave when this happens as I simply cannot stand it.

Swearing at the children is a constant. Before bed the other night I heard one ask to be read a bedtime story. The Mother's response was to 'read it the F yourself, you A.H.'

They seem to try to put them to bed around midnight. However, the parents usually stay up until 3-4 am watching comedy specials, laughing it up so loud that neither I, nor the children can sleep. The children repeatedly get up crying and get swore at some more until they return to bed. They leave at about 8:30 in the morning, so they barely get any sleep. (this happens every single day)

During the days when the father is watching the children and the mother is shopping, he plays gangster type music with lyrics about killing police and raping white women. (his wife is white, no less). His children hear it and sometimes I hear them saying the words, but the mother never knows as he shuts it off before she returns.

Speaking of being home, neither parent works. I have no idea how they live here as it's a nice, middle class complex. Yet they afford the rent, buy tons of groceries and have several huge flat screen TVs.

One last thing. The parents now sleep in the same room as the children. Once the children go to sleep they often do 'it.' One time one of the kids even woke up and the Mother screamed at him to back to sleep. They also smoke so heavily at night in that bedroom that I often have to open my windows from what comes through the vent.

Having been raised in a loving home, where I never once even heard a swear word, I find these people deplorable and disgusting. However, what I see on TV and read about online, maybe they are just normal these days??

I have reported these people for noise to the complex and to the police several times. Each time they make life worse for me afterwards. The mother even once stomped on the floor and screamed for an hour that they would do anything they wanted and there was nothing I could do about it.

So, as much as I've liked to call family services, I fear for what will happen afterwards, especially if they don't see anything wrong with the behavior I just described. I have no knowledge that the children are being beat, and they certainly have more food in their apartment than I do.

So, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on my situation. What would you do?

 

[mom2many]

First it sounds like you have some very thin walls. I can see where there is going to be some noise for the poor person below children. I think parents should only live on the first floor truthfully, but that's another topic. If you are able to hear all of this can you record it and possibly report it to CPS?

 

[momtoallkids]

there are many other forms of abuse other than beating a kid. they way they are talking to them and treating them is emotionally abusive. if you were to call family services they would infact do something about it. you would have to tell them exactly what you posted here so that they know spicifically what they are looking for. they would do an investigation. i guarentee the parents would clean up their act for such visits but you can always sneak the worker into your home so that they can hear exactly what you hear. they probably wont take the children but in all likeliness they would give them whats called a service plan. things such as parenting classes and family therapy would probably be on there as well as other helpful services. in order to keep their children they would have to complete these tasks and show improvement.
as for how they live so well while niether works, the parents probably collect a disability check each and probably collect checks for the children as well. people make a lucrative living that way. dont get me wrong, i too am disabled but i do not get much or get a check for each of my kids. i barely get enough to make ends meet. however it is possible to live like you are rich if you can manage to get all your kids diagnosed with something.

 

[IADad]

Well I think there are two answers. It seems like the children are at least being emmotionally abused, so I second the call for a call to CSP with some recorded evidence.

Second, are you prepared to move? Any way you slice this, I don't see you having a peaceful exisitence below these folks. I'm not saying don't report in order to not rock the boat, but be looking for a place to move and report as soon as you have evidence.

Neither works, but they seem to have cash...sound like the "work" at something illegal, I think I'd be looking for a quieter surrounding.

 

[momtoallkids]

i have delt with cps before. you dont even have to record it. actually if you did record it and they found out, you could be sued. however, cps has to take any report of suspected abuse including emotional seriously. even without a recording they will investigate. i agree with IAdad though, id get ready to move.

 

[IADad]

I don't think he could be successfully sued for recording what he hears in his own apartment. I'd say there's no presumption of privacy in what they broadcast beyond their walls. It's not like we're suggesting he tap their phones or plant a mic in their apartment. But I do agree, he doesn't have to have a recording, it might just spur them into action, was my only thought.

 

[parentastic]

So, as much as I've liked to call family services, I fear for what will happen afterwards, especially if they don't see anything wrong with the behavior I just described. I have no knowledge that the children are being beat, and they certainly have more food in their apartment than I do. So, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on my situation. What would you do?

Not only can you report this to CPS, but it's your duty to do so, as part of the law (at least in Canada, can't speak for other places).
There is no need for a recording.
They may decide it's not enough to do something about it yet, but it does go on record.
For all you know, someone else may have already called CPS before, and your added voice may be what makes the difference and causes them to investigate.
What you describe, in and of itself, definitely qualifies for an at-risk assessment.

 

[MomoJA]

I don't think he could be successfully sued for recording what he hears in his own apartment. I'd say there's no presumption of privacy in what they broadcast beyond their walls. It's not like we're suggesting he tap their phones or plant a mic in their apartment. But I do agree, he doesn't have to have a recording, it might just spur them into action, was my only thought.

I would record it and start by calling CPS. If they don't act, and we know that sometimes no action is taken witnessed by cases of report after report being ignored until the headlines read that a child was killed after having been ignored by CPS, so if they don't act, I would contact the media. Not that they can use the recording, but they might cause enough stink to get CPS to act.

These kids need someone to advocate on their behalf. I don't know if the OP has the stomach for it. It takes a brave soul, but I hope he/she does.

 

[Father_0f_7]

If you are able to hear all of this can you record it and possibly report it to CPS?

I second the call for a call to CSP with some recorded evidence.

I don't think he could be successfully sued for recording what he hears in his own apartment. I'd say there's no presumption of privacy in what they broadcast beyond their walls.

In the United States anyone who records someone else's private conversations without their knowledge (not including FBI, police, or private citizens working directly with the law) can have a civil lawsuit filed against them. So if they found out they may sue you and may even be successful, depends on the hard facts.
It IS illegal.

Having said that, you could argue that their conversation was not private because you could clearly hear it without any noise inhanching device (microphone).

I still wouldn't record it, just to be safe. However I would certainly report them to CPS. Emotional abuse is still just that...abuse.

Wouldn't you want someone to help you if you were those kids?

 

[Incogneato]

In the United States anyone who records someone else's private conversations without their knowledge (not including FBI, police, or private citizens working directly with the law) can have a civil lawsuit filed against them. So if they found out they may sue you and may even be successful, depends on the hard facts.
It IS illegal.

Having said that, you could argue that their conversation was not private because you could clearly hear it without any noise inhanching device (microphone).

I still wouldn't record it, just to be safe. However I would certainly report them to CPS. Emotional abuse is still just that...abuse.

Wouldn't you want someone to help you if you were those kids?

Well if the noise/voices are as loud/clear as the OP says they are.. why don't you just simply set up a camera in your house to start a "video blog" or to record some of your own precious memories... and if in the process of recording your own video their loud voices happen to be recorded... then that's not your fault.

 

[singledad]

The kids are screamed at, sworn at, called names, mocked, not comforted when upset or even physically hurt...

In my world, that is called abuse.

So, as much as I've liked to call family services, I fear for what will happen afterwards, especially if they don't see anything wrong with the behavior I just described. I have no knowledge that the children are being beat, and they certainly have more food in their apartment than I do.

What do you think is the very worst that could happen? Think about it...

There are children being abused, and it is in your power to help them. What are you waiting for?

 

[NeeingHelp]

I just wanted to say thank you to all who replied to my post that was moved to another topic. Unfortunately the system says I'm not allowed to reply there.

The last post asked why I hadn't already reported it. I just wasn't sure what abuse technically is anymore. In my life, yes that's abuse, but to the world at large, I just wasn't for sure.

Everytime I've reported them for noise, they react very badly, so I've been a bit afraid too.

To those who said I must have very thin walls... I don't, I've never heard any previous tenant in that apartment before.

 

[momtoallkids]

you can remain annonmys when calling.

 

[singledad]

The last post asked why I hadn't already reported it. I just wasn't sure what abuse technically is anymore. In my life, yes that's abuse, but to the world at large, I just wasn't for sure.

This is exactly what is wrong with child welfare. There are too many people who think they are oh so clever, defining the boundaries of what is and what isn't abuse. And the victims are the children who are abused in ways that don't leave physical marks, for whom it is near impossible to get help.

Never mind, I'll save my rant for the other thread.
OP - bruises aren't prerequisite. They aren't safe and loved. That is the all you need to know to report them. Please, don't wait. Those children need your help!

 

[Mom2all]

I agree. And a nice video of your cat or fish tank would be relaxing... and if it caught a noise disturbance... thats not your fault.

And just for your info... when you call the police for a noise disturbance.. they go and ask them to keep it down. When you call for child neglect, the response is different.

 

[NeeingHelp]

I wanted to quickly follow up with what has happened since I first posted this.

I tried to resolve this issue without going to family services. My major roadblock in doing that was the discovery that they are Section 8. As a result they are untouchable and I've found out their voices carry far more weight than mine.

My complex is no longer pretending, the message is clear. The Section 8 tenants can do whatever they want. I cannot. I do not even have the right to complain about them as that's a violation of their rights.

Due to a related police raid of another tenant we've also discovered the father is a drug dealer. He has never been charged, but we've all now seen him peddling his wares. Again, the complex does not care. Our entire building is often shrouded in the visible smell of drugs.

The police no longer seem to care, either. They do not show up when I call. I finally reached out to family services and I mentioned Section 8... The conversation was essentially over at that point and they could not hang up on me fast enough. As far as I'm aware, nothing has been done.

We've since had threats, the man sneaks up on us from behind and touches us, and speaks loudly so we nearly have a heart attack. Again, the police and complex do not care.

So, I would just like to conclude with a warning. If you are looking at places to live, no matter how nice, no matter if they are upscale, DEMAND to know if they ever allow Section 8. If they do, walk away. It will destroy your life.

Every time I hear that child cry it kills me inside now because I know what's happening just feet away from me and there is nothing I can do about it.

I am currently looking for a new place and will move when my lease is up.

 

[Father_0f_7]

And they wont do anything why? Section 8 is entirely different from Child Protective Services.

 

[NeeingHelp]

Father of 7, I have no idea why, it makes no sense to me.

The conversation went along as I would have hoped, they were very interested, probed with questions and said I was right for calling in, if correct, this was very concerning behavior.

Then I mentioned Section 8 and they were done talking. They curtly asked if that was the end of my report, I said yes, I thought I covered everything. They said they'd review it. No goodbye, thank you for calling, they just hung up.

 

[cybele]

Maybe they are reviewing it?

From my understanding isnt Section 8 just housing help? That dosent make them exempt from investigation from child protection.

 

[Father_0f_7]

Exactly. Section 8 is federally paid for housing for low income families, low income disabled, or low income elderly. The rent is usually lower for Section 8 tenants than the area would support.

CPS, I would hope, is reviewing the case and planning to do something. Having worked in the system before I do know that "action" unfortunately takes a long time, they have to collect all the evidence.

I see no reason what-so-ever that they would ignore the situation simply because they are in the Section 8 housing program.