School uniforms: yay or nay?...

[TabascoNatalie]

I come from Eastern Europe, we used to have school uniforms, but when USSR fell, they were abolished. Finally girls were allowed to wear trousers to school...

After 10 years, some schools decided to have uniforms back. They made contracts with tailors and uniforms cost more than designer clothing...

Well, not my worry... We live in UK where school uniform is a BIG thing... My boy has to wear uniform, but it either a jumper or a t-shirt.
I overheard some other parents talking that they would prefer white shirts and ties uniform because children would behave better... My reaction -- shoot yourself with a bannana

 

[JVegas]

My kids have to wear uniforms. It's kind of a pain because they're are only certain places that you can get the uniforms and they are a little pricy. Not only that but they wear khaki pants and white shirts. They get dirty and stained really easy. Im ok with a dress code but uniforms are too much.

Plus when i think back I would have hated it when I was a kid.

-Jay

 

[TabascoNatalie]

I used to hate my uniform in primary because it was a dress.

My boy doesn't mind his uniform, as it is a nice and comfortable red jumper. Our school isn't bad -- you can buy those jumpers at school with a logo, or the same color at Asda without logo.
But other schools require uniforms from specific dealers, which are a rip-off.

 

[cybele]

All public and private schools are uniformed here too. The primary school my kids go to is navy or yellow polo with school emblem, navy sweatpants/cargo shirts/short, navy hoodie and an optional whute and blue checkered sundress for the girls. The high school Lux is going to next year is the same, only maroon and black, and they are allowed to wear leggings and black jeans too.

The private schools are more strict, button up shirts, dress pants and tiesfor boys, button up shirts, ties, tartan skirts and knee high socks for girls, and knit jumpers and blazers for both. Azriel has a "friend" who goes to an all girls school where they also have special year 12 jumpers, and they have to pay for their extra curriculars to be embroided onto their blazers.

I don't buy the uniforms and begaviour link. My older three go to/went to a community run high school, so no uniforms and behaviour there is much better than the regular, uniformed public school that Dita and Azriel bstarted off in. I put it down to a few reasons, primarily, teacher involvement, school size and the added benefit of all the freedom the kids are given and the schools ability to say "You want to abuse that freedom? Go to school somewhere else" which of course isn't an option at regular schools.

Honestly though, I'm not fussed. Public school uniforms are dirt cheap and are sold at Kmart and Target and anything with a school emblem you order through the school so it's no hassle. Private school uniforms are expensive and have special stockists, but what do you expect from private schools?

Any time my kids complain about having to wear their comfortable uniforms I tell them about what I had to wear to one of Melbourne's 'upper tier' private girls schools in the 70s-80s.
Button up shirt, waistcoat, pleated skirt, suspenders, stockings, heeled lace up booties, tie, fitted blazer, pure wool scarf in winter and either a sunhat or beret, depending on season.
Oh, we also had official school rosary beads, I wonder if they're still around.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Wow, hoodies and sweatpants for uniform! How could anybody complain?

As i said, we're cool with our primary uniform. What worries me is the secondary. In the past they also had just jumpers and polo shirts, this year they changed into "smart" -- white shirts, waistcoats, ties and blazers. Oh my... Of course everything logoed, not sold in Asda, and have to be dry-cleaned, and can't be put into a washing mashine.
Where is the logic to make children dress like that is beyond me.

 

[cybele]

Not even in a cold cycle? I could not tolerate dry clean only school uniforms. Even my husband's work clothes can be thrown in the machine.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Here in UK it is a common attitude that more flimsy the school uniforms are (that have to be dry-cleaned, ironed, not to mention expensive and uncomfortable) the better disciplined kids are. Moreover, uniforms have to be anti-fashion, anti-self-expression, anti-attractive, in general anti-young people.

Yeah right... If it was true (like -- prevented bullying) i'd be the most happy with dry-cleaned blazers.

 

[cybele]

Yeah, somehow I can't see that logic working. I managed to do much teasing in my over the top uniform.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Also a thing that bugs me is that school uniform is such a turn-on for perverts...

The only good thing about my old school uniform was that i never had to be told/reminded to change as i got home.

 

[cybele]

Anything can be a turn on for anyone.

 

[Xero]

The only schools around here that do the pricey uniforms are the private schools, which makes enough sense to me. I mean, if you're shelling out the cash for private school, the uniforms shouldn't be much of a problem or a surprise. They do look uncomfortable and like a pain in the butt to wear, though.

My son's school has no code or uniform (well, it has a basic "code" I guess, like some small rules such as no camouflage or skulls and cross bones or anything derogatory, skirts and shorts must be at least a certain length etc) and about half of the other surrounding schools are the same. The other half are the relaxed type of uniform that are sold literally everywhere and start off pretty cheap and go up depending on where you buy them. Just basically khakis and navy blue shirts (probably more to it than that, but I am not familiar with it as it does not apply to me).

 

[akmom]

I hated school uniforms. Dresses/skirts are limiting. They were kind of hard to find and pricy when I was a kid, but my mom sewed most of mine herself. That was actually what most parents did.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

While i agree that school uniforms do positively contribute to discipline, but why bother with dressy suit type of things. A knitted jumper works just as well.
Expensive private schools are aiming for the "posh" factor, but they are different world. why an ordinary inner city comprehensive would want to mimmick that? What is the point?

I am so not looking forward that i will have to fight with my kids about "doing their ties properly"

 

[akmom]

Well on that count, I do think boys should be able to tie a tie. Mine can't, but we'll get there.

 

[cybele]

My husband owns one tie and keeps it tied up, just loosens it to get it over his head. If it comes undone he has to go to his parent's house and get his dad to tie it for him.
I may have untied it on a few occasions for shits and giggles.

 

[MamaRuthie]

ellie is at a private girls schools hers is a blue tartan dress with jumper and blazer with knee high socks and a skirt and tartan skirt in winter with tights its expensive and if she ever loses her blazer I will scream because that alone cost $210 but like others have said you know your signing up for that when you enrol into these schools
also there is two sports unforms one for summer and one for winter and official school bathers for swimming classes and the swim carnival

I don't know if it stops bullying or behaviour problems there are still behaviour problems at her school and girls who want to be nasty but they do look quite smart in their uniforms

 

[singledad]

Ok, School uniforms are really big here, both for public and private schools. The public schools in poorer areas tend to have more generic uniforms that you can buy from cheap chain-stores, while some of the posher public schools and the private schools have (much) more expensive uniforms.

My DD is in a private school. The uniform consists of burgandy checkered skirt, white shirt with school emblem on the pocket, pull-over, blazer and white socks with black shoes for summer, and the same skirt with black stockings, longsleave white shirt with school emblem, tie, jersey and blazer in winter. And then there is the sports uniform - short and t-shirt in school colours. The items that are very specific (skirt, pullover, jersey, tie and blazer) are also really expensive. The rest (white shirts, socks, stockings, etc can be bought cheeply - the emplems for the pocket I buy (and have stiched on) at the school. Saves a lot of money, especially since the emblems can be re-used when she outgrows the shirts.

Is making 6 and seven year olds wear white shirts and stockings rediculously impractical? Hell yes. But at least those are cheep to replace. The skirts, than goodness, are wash and wear. Even the blazers are machine-washable. Oh, and even though it isn't really regulation, the school looks the other way when little girls wear their sports-shorts under their skirts. That helps a lot, considering that you aren't going to stop little girls from running and playing, and inevitably whatever is under their skirts will be exposed.

As for discipline and bullying - I have some observations. My DD's schools has a yearly event they call "civvies-day", when kids get to wear ordinary clothes to school. Not sure if it is due to the clothing or due to the "other"-ness of the day, but discipline on that day goes out the window to the point where many teachers don't even try to teach actual lessons, and just let the kids play games and do fun activities - basically to keep them busy. Fortunately it's only one day in a year, so it doesn't really make a difference. I shudder to think what would happen if every day was like that, but perhaps it would become the new norm, and things would settle down again? Who knows...

As for bullying - the school my DD is in, is a very posh, private school, situated within one of the most exclusive residential estates in the city. Many of the kids come from very rich families. If they didn't wear uniforms, these kids would most definitely wear fancy designer labels to school. Then you get kids like my DD - paying her school fees just about wipes out my budget. It takes some serious planning and turning around of cents to keep up. I simply can't afford to clothe her in designer labels, even if I was willing to. For her, the uniform is a social leveller. It enables her to fit in where otherwise her clothing would very likely have made her an outcast. Is there still bullying? Hell yes. I think where there are kids (or people in general, actually) there will be bullying. But even though the uniform does not stop all bullying, it removes at least one reason why kids get bullied. It helps.

Well on that count, I do think boys should be able to tie a tie. Mine can't, but we'll get there.

LOL. When I was in school, they occasionally made us line up, and untie and retie our ties. If you weren't able to, you were punished. I may not have leant much else useful at school, but I know how to tie a tie!

 

[cybele]

Casual days are usually around one per term here (so four a year). The kids usually have to bring a gold coin to donate to the charity picked for that day in exchange for wearing casual clothes.
The day runs same as usual.

The day that has twilight athletics in the evening, on the other hand... all you can do is run and hide.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

The thing here is that a school signs a contract with a specific dealer and make sure that you only buy from them.
Like... Your child be sent home for wearing the wrong shade of charcoal gray. And they make sure everything has a logo. And all is up to whatever a bloody headmaster feels like. Well, our primary is quite liberal, while secondary keeps trying to be more posh.

As much as i loved to get rid of my USSR uniform, now i think it was a good idea to have the same in whole country.

Doing up your tie is (should be) common sense, but whats the point of wearing it every single day?

For her, the uniform is a social leveller.

I do think it is a myth. Just because kids at school know each other. They know who spent holidays in Maldives, or who has never been to seaside.

As for designer clothing. I wouldn't bother with it, but i see really poor people buy it and have nothing to eat later on. Just like newest I-everything.

 

[singledad]

I do think it is a myth. Just because kids at school know each other. They know who spent holidays in Maldives, or who has never been to seaside.

As for designer clothing. I wouldn't bother with it, but i see really poor people buy it and have nothing to eat later on. Just like newest I-everything.

Ah, but kids my DD's age doesn't really have a concept of "rich" and "poor" yet. That will come later. All they know is what I have (on) is nicer than what you have, and what their parents teach them about labels. Sure, in a few years they'll figure out that while their yearly vacation is in Europe, ours is in one of our national parks, and that my can might have the "right" badge, but it is getting rather old. By then she'll have had time to make friends - hopefully real friends, who won't look down at her for being "merely" middle-class. But I really believe that walking into a sea of 6-year-old, Levi-wearing strangers, wearing chain-store jeans, is like having a "bully me" tattoo on your forehead. It's all about first impressions. In a uniform, you get a fair chance to make a first impression based on who you are.

Of course it won't last. Of course it doesn't level things completely. But when you are six years old and trying to make friends, the smallest thing can make a difference. To be honest, I can already see that the kids are realizing that there is more to social status, but she already has a few good friends, and one particular little girl to who she is very close. So to me, that is mission accomplished.

Oh, and if you're questioning my wisdom in picking that school for her, so do I - often. But when I do, I go to the newspapers and read about the things that happen (or don't happen ) in government schools, and I am at peace with my decision again. I want what is best for my little girl, and for the moment, that means a private school. Who knows, that might change in time. I'll deal with it if and when it ever does.