Should I let my thirteen-year-old daughter listen to Lady Gaga?...

[ResponsibleDad]

In my home, we used to really love Hannah Montana. Even I enjoyed the show. Then Miley Cyrus started making some questionable choices in her personal life. As a result, we no longer watch Hannah Montana at all. I told my son it is because she is not making very good choices right now. In a way, spending your money, watching their shows, listening to their music, etc says "I am okay with the choices you make." These people have chosen to be in the spotlight, and have therefore opened themselves up to be scrutinized, as the things they do and say do have an influence and affect on the minds of the people watching.
The songs that Lady Gaga sings do not portray the type of lifestyle nor love that I would want my son to have. I do not want them to consider their significant other their religion, placing their faith, hope, trust, etc. in a man as it should be placed in God. If you look at the videos she makes, they are extremely vulgar and offensive to a Christian. She also calls herself "Monster Mother" or something along those lines. I don't want my son to view himself as a monster. We are sinners, who become saints when we are saved by the grace of God. Alot of music out there contradicts the type of lifestyle/relationship we are called to have. We have started listening to Air1, Christian radio. Perhaps that might be good for your daughter?

 

[TabascoNatalie]

if you are so fussy about Lady Gaga... what about when your girl becomes a goth or metalhead?

 

[ResponsibleDad]

if you are so fussy about Lady Gaga... what about when your girl becomes a goth or metalhead?

Good point. My son listened to a lot of different things, including metal, and at some point I got worried. My theory:

My theory is that kids rebel and that is healthy and normal. It is also why loving parents are strict and forgiving. When a parent lets their kids do whatever they want those kids become teens who have to push the limits beyond the law inorder to rebel. That is not healthy. However, a parent must be willing to accept a certain amount of rebelion and use the low-level non-destructive rebelion as an opportunity not just to punish the child but also to discuss values and relate to the child's desire. We all know what happens when children have no limits but some of us are unaware of what happens to a child raised in a strict home with no tolerance for the growth of the child. I know a man who was raised in such a household. He was kept out of touch with the modern culture of his classmates, no music that wasn't Christian, no TV, no non-Christian books or other reading material. His church had very few children in it. He was usually grounded for infractions such as asking why his siblings couldn't do some of the chores or wearing jeans to school. He grew up deeply devoted to the Church and God. He felt on fire for the Lord. Then he became an adult and moved out of his parents home. Suddenly immersued in the rest of the world with no way of relating to his more culturally normal peers he began to drown. He became addicted to drugs and sex and spent 15 years believing he had driven God away from himself. Later in that stage of his life he began pretending he felt God in his life. He got clean, he got married, he started going to church and he prayed all the time. He describes praying at that point as being like talking from a coffin six feet under. He felt nothing, and underneath the image he projected he was still doing low level drugs, engaging in "virtual" relationships, secretly resented that getting married didn't bring him back to God, and was utterly convinced he was lost and would never be found. Now his marriage has ended, he is trying to face the problems from his past, he is learning to enjoy popular modern culture without veiwing all of it as sinful, and sometimes he thinks God is still there for him and always was. If we raise our children in a bubble, the bubble may burst one day and leave them unable to cope with the world around them. It is fine to raise our kids in Church and with Christian values but we must help them also understand the secular society around them and give them a Christian community to belong to, with friends they can count on.

You and your wife should sit down and discuss Lady Gaga and once you have an agreement, you should bring your daughter into it. I sincerly doubt that you and your wife don't understand what your daughter thinks and feels about the issue so the two of you can make your decision without further input from her. You should then sit down and have a discussion with her, let her explain herself, let her understand that you hear her and you understand her feelings then help her to understand and accept the desision the two of you have made.

I let my kids listen to the music they want to listen to. I ask them why they listen to it and I share my opinions and thoughts with them. Every once in a while I will ban a song from the house and my hearing because there is only so much a mother can tolerate but my kids know that when I ban a song I mean it and they don't argue with me because I do it very rarely. Just as I generally let them pick their own friends but when I ban a friend, that's it because they know I don't ever do that without very good cause. Last week my oldest went through his iPod and deleted a lot of music. I asked him why. He said he has been praying about it and decided that those songs were contrary to his beliefs as a Christian so he should get rid of them. He told me he wishes he could donate them, but he couldn't find a way to do so. I asked why he would donate them if they were against his beliefs and he told me that maybe somebody else could avoid wasting money on them and they outgrown them like he did. My son also turns down sex, drugs, cigarettes and alcohol, and inappropriate television. I know that when he is an adult and on his own he will already know how to say no and how to stand up for what he believes because he is already doing it now. He also asked me to skip vacation next year and go on a mission trip with the church. I told him we could schedule vacation around the mission. He told me that he will have a job next summer and can't expect two weeks off so he will have to pick one and he wants to do mission. I couldn't be more proud of my son

 

[Patrick]

Dear all,

Thank you for all your replies.

I did some research and tried to find songs that would be suitable for my daughter. Considering her young age, there aren't too many, but I think I'm close to finding a few songs that we might listen to together as a family. I avoid the songs with no-no words, for various reasons, and also for instance "Judas" because we have not gotten to that part in our family bible readings yet. I don't want her first impression of Judas Iscariot to be from Ms. Gaga. Luckily I feel that I have found a few calmer, nicer songs. Other parents I know don't seem to understand this approach, but I think it is working. We even put on some at the church picnic today.

Unfortunately, this has created a new problem. My daughter ask me about what the lyrics mean and how it relates to her life; what she can learn from it. I don't know what to say. Parents, I really need your help on this one:

<I>"Love is just a history that they may prove
And when you're gone I'll tell them my religion's you"</I>
This could be something very religious, a homeage to the Heavenly Father. Also, there is a lot about love in the bible - love between man and God, love between husband and wife. So far there are no worries.
But then:

<I>"I'm ready for their stones."</I>
If this was just Christ meeting his faith, knowing well that he will soon be in Heaven, I wouldn't have any second thoughts about it. On the other hand, I feel that Gaga puts herself in Christ's shoes.

Also:

<I>"I won't crucify the things you do."</I>
What does this mean? It could be the regret of Pontius Pilatus, or the mildness of Christ.

At the moment I'm just really confused and I regret altogether that I picked out this song before doing proper research, as you suggested. Hopefully you have some good pieces of advice on how I can explain to my daughter, without lying, how I feel.

I think having a talk with my daughter and my wife together and expressing how I feel to her about this issue would be my best route in my opinion. My daughter may not be happy, but one strong point in our favor is that we both sat down and seriously looked into this issue. Going over lyrics and taking the time to find out who and what Lady Gaga is without just automatically saying no. That was very hard for us to do and my daughter should be made aware of that. I always have more respect even if I don't agree with the decision if someone can sit and look at both sides before issuing their decision or opinion. I hope that my talk will work out and soon my daughter can go onto the next big thing in pop culture , hopefully not as problematic as Lady Gaga.
Anyone have experienced anything similar to this? I really need your help her; again, thank you so much for your time.

Best regards,

Patrick

 

[Antoinette]

i tap out, this has become less about music and more about god which as we all know i have never read the bible and know nothing about so i fear i am no longer of any use sorry

 

[teenage_parent]

let me just put it simply. gaga's view on religion or god for that matter is not the same as yours if you will base it on the lyrics of her songs and her behavior as an artist. now, gaga can argue that her songs does not really reflect her faith, that her songs are "roles" she takes just as eminem used to always say.

however, if your basis are her songs and behavior as an artist/performer, she's not the artist for you. she's very radical in her beliefs. if she's not, she won't be dancing and singing on stage wearing nothing but her underwear, making sexual acts moves on stage, kissing different men on stage and on MTVs. again, she can say that's her being an artist but that's not who she is. that's her right.

that song you are pertaining to talks nothing about religion or God. that i assure you.

"i'm ready for their stones" means she knows that she will be judged unfairly and she's ready for that

"i won't crucify you" means she will not judge anyone. live and let live, that's her principle

"my religion is you" means she doesn't believe in religion and her "religion" is love and love is that person the song pertains too.

that's the truth about that song and i am pretty sure you would rather tell your child the truth as i am sure you always do no matter how hard. then there's the interpretation for you.

now you can take the creative lisence card and interpret it the way you want it which is what art is about anyway. it means what you want it to mean.

i am not religious, by the way but i appreciate religion and open to them. i just don't have one religion.

in your case, Gaga doesn't fit where, i think, you are trying to guide your child towards.

i hope that helps.

 

[IADad]

First of all , I wanted to than responsible Parent for that well thought out response. I think you're trying to parent with eyes wide open, and good for you!

Second. I think teen parent is right, you can't frame Lady Gagas words into a biblical context. Crusificition existed in the world, not just to christ, so I think Patrick may be trying to be too literal with some of the lyrics. What do they mean? I'd encourage her to think about what they may mean. Isn't that one of the beauties of art, that people's interpretations are not necessarily the same and that the discovery of a meaning is part of your personal relationship with the art.

and one last thought re: Judas/ Really, at 13, and being raised christian, she has no concept for Judas? Is she not exposed to the words about Judas every advent? I mean my 9 yo doesn't have a very concrete thought about who Judas was or but he's familiar with him and that he betrayed Christ and that just comes from having heard the story in church, not any protracted study of the events. Is it possible your daughter knows more about Judas than you think? What else may she know more about than you think? (not making judgements here, just opening the topic for thought.

 

[cute_cupcake04]

I would let her listen to Lady Gaga, even if you told her not to listen to it she would probably listen to it with friends, and it plays all the time at parties, public places, on the radio...

 

[Patrick]

IADad: I also agree with ResponsibleDad's response. There are different approaches to parenting, and I understand that mine leaves a bit to be desired.

When it comes to the biblical context of that song, I believe any song implicitly featuring Pontius Pilatus, crucifixation and Jesus does contain at least vague references to Christianity.

"being raised christian, she has no concept for Judas?"
I feel that certain parts of the bible is either too strong for little children, or too complicated and therefore meaningless to spend considerable time on. I also disagree with the current thinking when it comes to focusing so much on the death of Christ; what about the life he lived and what he preached. Anyways, of course my daughter will be taught about Judas and what he did, but it is God's love that ought to be the focus. She will also finish her bible reading, and read about the horrors in Job's book, incest, sex, unimaginable violence and everything else. But there is a time and place for everything.

Back to Lady Gaga: if you dare, see the music video of "born this way". While I understand and respect our differences, I hope you understand how uncomfortable the artist have potential to make me feel. Would it not be hypocritical of me to say "I dislike it myself, but I don't care enough to set my foot down." Parenting is about love, but also about the limits to grow. I want to protect my child from things that may not have a good influence on her. Sometimes the children need our protection, don't you think?

Patrick

 

[ResponsibleDad]

Dear Patrick,

I agree with your last post; children need rules and limitations in order to grow to become responsible adults. She needs to listen to you, not Gaga. You decide, not her.

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." And thirteen, even a mature thirteeen, is way too young for that kind of autonomy.

I've tried to make a point of explaining to our son that there are differences between punishment, discipline, consequence, and protection. Sometimes, they all “feel” the same, especially when we are still learning them, and sometimes the limits they impose are the same, but there are distinctions. This is a problem you might experience if you ban Gaga in your house.

Seems to me what you have before you is a teaching and growing moment. This is bigger than whether GaGa is acceptable. This is an opportunity for you to use worldly music as a way to grow closer as parents and child, a way of showing her that you are paying attention (I can't stress that point enough), that you and your wife love her enough to put up with the fits to come, that you are strong enough to handle the fits, and an opportunity to set a foundation for her life and most likely her own parenting style when she is a mom. This is an opportunity to build trust.

I have never listened to Lady GaGa though I've heard her name all over the place. I looked up a couple of her/his lyrics yesterday after reading your post and found them to be at best negative fluff and at worst … destructive. However. I looked up the lyrics to the song you mentioned “Born this way” and then I pulled up the video on youtube. You might be able to imagine what my first response to the video included - I'm sure something similar to your jaw-dropping first impression. Something along the lines of OH MY! Oh-ho-ho nooew. Lol Mmm-mm nopers. At thirteen? What thirteen year old would have the capacity to discern and make sense of that mess? They don't have enough life experience to even know what they are looking at much less frame it in proper context. This kind of music isn't healthy for grow-ups much less children. It is just unbelievable that this is mainstream American music.

Let me just say that this is just one more reason I am happy I pulled my son from public school in the 5th grade.

 

[mom2many]

I'm gonna leave religion out of what I am gonna say. I have had enough religion in the last few weeks to make my head spin and the fact that I don't believe in God probably doesn't help.

As parents we should be protecting our kids, but not from the world at large, the truth is that our children will move away and enter the real world. The real world , if overly protected, will eat a young adult up and spit them out. Living life according to your faith is fine, nothing wrong there, living life within a bubble where everything around you is faith based is not. It's a temporary bubble that is created by parents who are afraid that there child will become less then what their ideal of their child should be. Life is about so many teachable moments, moments that at some point in life every child is going to have to face. I see it everyday where I live, my community is largely LDS and when these children leave they are shocked. They have no real clue how to handle themselves..the old saying "like kids in a candy shop" comes to mind.

Lordy if I had a nickle for everyone of them that are having shotgun weddings due to getting a girl pregnant I would be seriously rich. Of course it's not all LDS children, some LDS are more liberal then others but I think if a lot of these parents were less rigid in their faith there would be less sneaking around and a whole lot more openness between parents and children.

Also, never underestimate the mind of a 13 year old, they are amazingly smart people. They know a heck of lot more then anyone ever gives them credit for. At 13 they are not babies, they are young people headed to young adults. Look at Judas, there is nothing in that story that a 13 year old couldn't understand or process.

enough from me, I am off to write a 2 page paper on Luke 18:9-14, and finish a paper on the young brain and reading and math...yay me, I say sarcastically.

 

[Xero]

i tap out, this has become less about music and more about god which as we all know i have never read the bible and know nothing about so i fear i am no longer of any use sorry

Yeah that's why I stopped replying. This question should be answered by parenting, not religion. I find it obnoxious as I am not religious either, and the people posting conversations on this topic are stating their religious BELIEFS as FACT - I hate that. It automatically outs everyone who doesn't believe the exact same thing. So closed minded. So I'm no longer interested in this. I have respect for religion and those who practice it, but it bothers me when people let the church raise their children. And I'm prepared to be flamed for that comment.

 

[Patrick]

I did not mean to make this into a discussion about "christian parenting" vs "other parenting", and while I have shared some of my background so that you can better understand how I feel about the situation. I don't think I have turned this into a religious discussion; everyone (included myself) are entitled to indulge into whatever religion they choose, or abstain from such - and my ambition has not been to blindly follow meaningless out-of-context bible quotes. It's more: here's my situation and how can we handle this in a terapeutic, proper, sensible manner. (I also discuss this on a Christian forum, and wanted different opinions, without the religious filter not letting through certain good opinions and ideas I might not myself have produced.

Leaving religion aside, at what age do you feel Lady Gaga is appropriate, considering that this is a relatively mature child that engages with the lyrics and put lots of thought into it? Am I the only one who feel that there are a lot of sexual underlying themes and that there a child might feel uncomfortable going to her concerts and seeing some of her music videos? Yes, she is an artist that pushes the limits, but I wouldn't want my daughter to see e.g. a video with Gaga born out of a giant vagina and then rubbing herself towards different dancers of the male specimen for five minutes, and these views are not even remotely related to what I may or may not have heard at bible camp or in church. My child ought to be exposed to different things so that she can thrive and navigate successfully in the real world, but I feel that the line has to be drawn somewhere, and I'd anticipate that someone else would feel the same way.

Again, sorry about revealing my religious orientation, but let me reassert that I just want what's best for my child No hard feelings

 

[mom2many]

I don't think any of us thought you were turning this into a religion vs others thread. I think what is being said (they can correct me if I am wrong) is that we can't change, not the right word but all that my brain is coming up with, a persons stance when they are coming at it from a religious standpoint. Religion is usually one of those hills to die on for a lot of people, kwim?

Leaving religion aside, at what age do you feel Lady Gaga is appropriate, considering that this is a relatively mature child that engages with the lyrics and put lots of thought into it?

Lyrically speaking any age is acceptable to me, my young ones all like her and I have no problem with that.

Am I the only one who feel that there are a lot of sexual underlying themes and that there a child might feel uncomfortable going to her concerts and seeing some of her music videos?

I completely agree with you here. While the music is ok with me her videos are to mature, they have seen her preform on So you think you can dance and one other tv show but that is it and that's because I know it will be kept relatively PG.

As I think I said already, I think of her as the Madonna of my day or the Elvis of my grandparents/parents. They no more corrupted our world, our parents or myself then Lady Gaga will do in the future. I can even remember writing a paper for history about Madonna (can't remember why it was relevant to history) specifically the song "Like a Virgin", my mom wasn't so sure that was acceptable. However after seeing what I wrote she was very impressed and I got an A. I don't remember what I wrote that was years ago but I remember breaking that song down line by line and giving what I thought it was about. My point is children hear and see things differently then we adults do, we may see a line in a song and take it very literally, they however don't. Listen to the music with your DD discuss it, ask her what she thinks it's about, get her take on it...it might surprise you. Trust me when I say be thankful it is Lady Gaga, my kids are alternative rockers and while I have grown to love a lot of the songs, some of it just makes me shake my head and get a headache!

 

[teenage_parent]

i am not religious too. i don't like gaga's music and i don't care about her antics, costumes, etc. i only care about the music and i happen to not like hers. but i generally listen to all artists i come across with because that's the only way i can determine whether i like it or not.

however, the original question has a lot to do with his religious belief. he was asking whether it was "safe" to let his child listen to gaga given their faith and the way they practice it.

probably that's why many responded with religious contents.

just a maybe. just trying to wear their shoes

 

[Christopher]

While this is a complex issue, several things stand out to me. When each generation comes up, it does so with music that the previous generation thinks is trash. I remember that from my youth, don't you? I also recall how much of the music was about 'shocking' the adults then as it is now.

With the proliferation of electronics today we would be hard put to stop our kids from listening to whatever they want to. You can control the concert going, and I agree - you should, but you can't shut their ears.

We have to rely on the things we have taught them about right and wrong, and point out things in music that are clearly wrong - when they are. Beyond that it's tough. Teenagers are on the cusp of 'going their own way' and we need to be careful of pushing too hard, as it will just encourage them to pull away quicker.

Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying to compromise your standards. But kids are often smarter than we give them credit for. My youngest grandson (13) is a fan of Eminem, who horrifies me. I have discouraged this, pointing out some tasteless &amp; worse things in his music, but then let it go. Recently he posted a quote from Eminem on his FaceBook page saying how he liked it and several of his same age friends agreed with him. After some reflection, I decided that I could not let it go unchallenged, so I posted my thoughts. In my comment I pointed out what the quote said about E as a person. What a person making the statement was also saying about others, about family, about truth, about laws, and what it meant if you just carried the thought through all the way.

I waited for the response (somewhat worried he might de-friend me) and was very pleased when he commented in a positive way and 'liked' my post. I was even more gratified that his teen friends did the same!

I feel that if we do our best to give our children the real reasons for what we say and do, they will let us know they understand more than we expect.

 

[IADad]

I find it obnoxious as I am not religious either, and the people posting conversations on this topic are stating their religious BELIEFS as FACT - I hate that. It automatically outs everyone who doesn't believe the exact same thing. So closed minded.

I hope you come back to read, because I'll take issue with you, and you know I appreciate and respect your opinions. I didn't see anybody posting anything that said the appraoch to music listening decision IS or must be made on religious bases. It seems perfectly normal that people who do have religious beliefs would make those part of their dicisions about parenting. It doesn't mean that secular views aren't welcome, it's just another way of looking at the issue.

Just as it irks you to have religion interjected, it can be equally irksome to feel that religion can't be discussed. I think everybody's been pretty considerate and tolerant in this thread, I haven't read every word but that's the tone I believe has been set.

My reason for posting this is because I hope people don't make there decisions to post in a topic based on whether religion is or isn't part of the discussion. If there was a discussion about a child's behavior and one person brought up psychological reasons while another discussed physiological reasons would we shun one discussion for the other? I hope there's respect for everyone's opinions and views here.

 

[Xero]

Religion CAN be discussed, like I said I respect that. The problem is, when someone makes a conversation almost completely revolved around religion, I have no way of responding. I don't agree with or believe in any of that stuff, so I can't come up with any suitable answer to their thoughts on Lady Gaga. All that comes to my mind when someone tries to biblically analyze Lady Gaga is "that's rediculous". Not helpful or relevent at all. So I feel "outed", just as the Christians would feel if I based a parenting discussion completely on the Big Bang Theory and evolution, which they wouldn't agree with or relate to. I don't though, I always try to stay on neutral ground out of respect because I know not everyone believes the same thing I do.

 

[IADad]

Just wanted you to know that I, for one, appreciate a variety of perspectives and I don't think everyone who posts a christian perspective on something does so to exclude any other view. I wish I knew which "facts' you were referring to so I could understand your feeling excluded from the conversation. I really don't think that was anyone's intent. and I'm trying to understnad.

If there was a discussion on the teaching of biology in schools Id expect you to contribute that it's important to you to have a curriculum for your child that is based in evolution, just as I'd expect those be believe in strcik creationism to express their views. There are topics where you more than nuetral thought is welcome, I think. Thoes discussions can go a long way to understanding points of view and breaking down mis-conceptions. So, by all means do or don't do what you feel comfortable with. I just don't think it was anyone's position to make your views any less valuable though anything they posted. as least I hope not.

 

[Xero]

I don't feel as though my views are less valuable to this thread, just less relevent. I will live, its just annoying.

And see, if I were to take part in a discussion on whether or not biology/evolution should be taught in schools, I would say nothing about my beliefs. My answer would be (and has been, as we have discussed that topic in the past) that I think my child should learn about everything, and should not be left in the dark no matter what I think of it. It is not important to me that my child be taught about evolution just because I feel that's the way things went down, it is important to me that my child learns about everything science has to teach him. I also don't mind him being exposed to different beliefs in the world either (under my supervision and to a certain extent), so if he wants to go to church I let him. He goes to Sunday school with my MIL on occasion. I don't let my beliefs make the decisions for me, especially when it comes to parenting my kids.