Spanking......

[Mindy]

Very simple if you ask me

 

[NinJaBob]

Exactly, I agree with Brent and Mindy. When I was kid I was beat up, smacked and even spanked the "correct way" by adults that were in a supervisory role over me. This included Grqandparents, parents, step-parents, babysitters, older brothers and sisters, uncles and even teachers. All it ever did for me was make me a violent kid as well as resent the people who hit me.

When I was in grade school I got in a fight with these 2 bullies that were picking on my friend. After the fight I was spanked by the principle and then sent home where my uncle spanked me with a leather belt. Then when my mom got home from work I was smacked across the mouth when I was trying to plead my case. I remember that day like it was yesterday. The message that they were all trying to send me was that violence was wrong. :veryconfused:

It took the Marine Corps and my wife to show me how to channel my anger not to mention counseling and medication. I have never hit my kids and I never plan too.

 

[evilbrent]

Originally Posted by Pinkbook

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I'm sorry but this whole thing about talking, discussing and explaining isn't working very well lately in my opinion. More and more teens are rude and disrespectful to their parents and elders, and yet we want to 'discuss' this with them. Excuse me, but my children are warned to be respectful

I always think it's helpful to offer something constructive with this though - so that smackers don't just dismiss us as bleeding heart liberals crying about the poor defenceless kids without offering anything useful and practical.

My practical advice (not the first time I've given this on the internet):

If you want to teach your kid to ride a bike then ride a bike regularly and love it.
If you want to teach your kid to be aware of traffic then be careful around traffic.
If you want to teach your kid to love music then learn and play an instrument.
If you want to teach your kid to be respectful then be respectful.


Excuse me, but respect is like discipline - it canNOT be enforced, it can only be demonstrated. There's no such thing as warning someone to be respectful - and if there were, that's not the sort of respect I want people to be showing me thankyouverymuch.

 

[Mindy]

When I was in grade school I got in a fight with these 2 bullies that were picking on my friend. After the fight I was spanked by the principle and then sent home where my uncle spanked me with a leather belt. Then when my mom got home from work I was smacked across the mouth when I was trying to plead my case. I remember that day like it was yesterday. The message that they were all trying to send me was that violence was wrong. :veryconfused:

It took the Marine Corps and my wife to show me how to channel my anger not to mention counseling and medication. I have never hit my kids and I never plan too.

I'm so so sorry that happened to you Phil. That is awful. Plain and simple, how could ALL those people not put two and two together and realize they were doing the same to you as you did? How can you learn from that?

I was spanked 3 times in my life, and honestly, I probably was being bad, but the point is, although I remember each incident clearly, I have no recollection of what I did wrong. Only the feeling of humiliation and wondering, why would mom hit me? Dad never laid a finger on me, but mom would be the one. It never "hurt" PHYSICALLY. It hurt a lot in every other way.

It also taught me to be selfish. Because then a child is consumed by trying to keep themselves out of trouble and how they can do what they want without getting spanked, instead of learning empathy and respect for themselves and others. When I could have been learning that I hurt the cat, and I wouldn't want to be hurt like I hurt the cat, I learned that the next time I wanted to bug the cat, I needed to be sneakier about it. A child, especially a young one, cannot make the connection that I hurt the cat so mom hurts me. They just can't. They totally forget all about the cat, and the only part of the lesson imprinted in their brain, is that hitting can't be that bad if mom who supposedly loves me does it? Right?

Your last paragraph reminds me of something very important. A young child cannot control their emotions. That is what tantrums are. It's our job to teach them to get a hold of their emotions, so how can we possibly do this, if in 90% or better of cases, a parent is spanking because they have lost control of their own emotions? They are angry, frustrated, and at the end of their ropes. I don't judge parents for this. It happens. This is when you need to walk away, because it's absolutely impossible to rationalize with your child when you are feeling anything but rational....

 

[NinJaBob]

I'm so so sorry that happened to you Phil. That is awful. Plain and simple, how could ALL those people not put two and two together and realize they were doing the same to you as you did? How can you learn from that?

I wasn't abused or anything. I mean I was never thrown down the stairs for spilling my milk or anything like that. When I was hit I was bad first. Also it wasn't everyday either. I didn't get caught everyday.

EDIT: Sometimes when I was disciplined it was out of rage and I was sorta beat up or smacked in the face and sometimes it was out of calm cool collected discipline. I was beaten by my brothers and sisters and a couple of teachers and a couple of babysitters but when my mother found out she took care of it.

EDIT: BTW my mother and I have a great relationship now.

 

[mom2many]

By know we all know where I stand on this topic, I do still find it odd that people associate an occasional spank with hitting and abusiveness, which even I have said is wrong, I found this "parenting manual" on another site and was HORRIFIED, when you all have a second take a look. I see a clear difference between the once in a blue moon spank and spanking as your only form of puishment.

TO TRAIN UP A CHILD by Michael & Debi Pearl

 

[Pinkbook]

To me, if a child is doing something bad, endangering themselves or others, how is hitting them going to teach them not to do it again? If a child runs into the road and is spanked, all that will teach the child is not to get caught the next time. If you hit a child because they are hurting another child, how can your child possibly understand the logic behind that when there is none? We don't hit! SMACK!

The bottom line is that whatever the child is doing, what we really want is to teach them empathy. To show them that it hurts people when they hit them. To ask them how they would feel if they were hit?

Let me give you an example. One of my friends had this hands 'loose hand' child who time outs do not work anymore. She was getting constant complaints about her child and his hands but nothing they tried was working out. One day we are at birthday party and there is an argument between the birthday girl and this kid. Well I have no clue why or what happen but all I know is that the kid takes his fist out and hits the birthday girl on the chest several times (my eyes witness that). Bad luck was that daddy saw him. Now make note I have know this man since childhood and I KNOW that he would never lay a hand on a woman. However his child seemed to have no problem doing so. Where the heck did he get the hitting thing I don't honestly get it. But to say that he was pissed is an understatement. He grabbed the kid and spanked him twice on the spot. Now I already hear you all screaming 'child abuse', but let me tell you that was the end of his hitting days. Dad made sure that he understood that every time that he touched someone he was going to make sure the same was done to him. He stopped I tell you and that was the only time he ever had to do it.

They say that you should always try to put yourself in someone else shoes, however it isn't until you <I>feel</I> how the other person is feeling that you really <I>get it</I>. It's like telling someone you know how they feel after a tragedy. No you can't. You can't possibly knows how it feels unless you actually experience it. You can imagine, you can dream but you don't really know how they feel unless you have gone thru it yourself.

I guess 'little Joe' learn that day that it really does hurt when you hit others and if he didn't want the event to repeat itself he better stopped.

And please please, don't anyone tell me that I don't have any kids yet, and when I do "I will spank them, you'll see" I've heard that enough times in my life...

I'm not going to say it, but I'm going to warn you that there is a lot of stuff about parenting that changed once I started raising my kids.

Please please, for the sake of your relationship with your children, don't ever do this. They will never forgive you. And they will never trust you again. Unless you can tell me what that would teach them?

Umm... yes they will. In fact some day (perhaps not when they are teenagers) they will thank you for it. I know I do, everytime I remember why twice, in my entire life, my mom had to put her hands on me. I had it well deserved both times, because I remember very clearly what I did. I was rude, innapropiate and a spoil brat; I had it comming. I think back now at those times and wonder: what the hell was I thinking?! I can't say she didn't warn me enough times before it happend. She did and stubborn as I was refuse to get it.

Exactly, I agree with Brent and Mindy. When I was kid I was beat up, smacked and even spanked the "correct way" by adults that were in a supervisory role over me. This included Grqandparents, parents, step-parents, babysitters, older brothers and sisters, uncles and even teachers. All it ever did for me was make me a violent kid as well as resent the people who hit me.

I believe there is a confusion here. I do not believe that my oldest daughter has either the right or the abilty to correct her sister. That's my job and they know better than to hit each other. Same with grandparents, babysitters or anyone else. I do not allow anyone to 'spank' or 'beat' my kids just for the sake of correcting them.

When I was in grade school I got in a fight with these 2 bullies that were picking on my friend. After the fight I was spanked by the principle and then sent home where my uncle spanked me with a leather belt. Then when my mom got home from work I was smacked across the mouth when I was trying to plead my case. I remember that day like it was yesterday. The message that they were all trying to send me was that violence was wrong.

You see THAT is abuse, not to mention unfairness. I do not blame you for being biased against an occassional spank. But spanking is not my regular form of punishment, is the last thing my children would think I would do. I have only use spanking in extreme and rare ocassions. Beating on a child the way they did to you doesn't work. I have many ways of punishment that my children fear far more than a pat on the behind. The threat alone of taking the computer away has them already crying.

It also taught me to be selfish. Because then a child is consumed by trying to keep themselves out of trouble and how they can do what they want without getting spanked, instead of learning empathy and respect for themselves and others. When I could have been learning that I hurt the cat, and I wouldn't want to be hurt like I hurt the cat, I learned that the next time I wanted to bug the cat, I needed to be sneakier about it. A child, especially a young one, cannot make the connection that I hurt the cat so mom hurts me. They just can't. They totally forget all about the cat, and the only part of the lesson imprinted in their brain, is that hitting can't be that bad if mom who supposedly loves me does it? Right?

I beg to differ on this. You are giving kids way less credit than they deserve. Kids know why they aren't suppossed to do something. I have many examples (I see and hear a lot of parent-child interaction) that kids do know why they aren't suppossed to do something. A child that listens to no warnings, punishment and sometimes as a last resort spanks, usually to me has deeper issues that parents are (many times on purpose) not looking for. That's a whole new ball park.

Your last paragraph reminds me of something very important. A young child cannot control their emotions. That is what tantrums are. It's our job to teach them to get a hold of their emotions, so how can we possibly do this, if in 90% or better of cases, a parent is spanking because they have lost control of their own emotions? They are angry, frustrated, and at the end of their ropes. I don't judge parents for this. It happens. This is when you need to walk away, because it's absolutely impossible to rationalize with your child when you are feeling anything but rational...

Let me say this a child wouldn't need to have a tantrum if you would learn how to prevent them. Heck if a child is hungry or tired off course they are going to have a tantrum! In fact, I'm going to have one with them. Believe me adults aren't any different from kids when it comes to temper tantrums, I see them everyday. Temper tantrums are a whole issue that I can discuss for hours.

I can count with the fingers of one hand how many times my kids had temper tantrums and most of them where when schedules were shifting. I learn how to watch them and see the triggeting factor, that way I could avoid them. I never have hit a child because having a temper tantrum, mostly because I don't let it get to me (I do not wish to brag but I have been told I'm very patient). They knew there were other ways to get my attention. I had agreements with them about the issue (which btw I got laughed by my friends), yet my kids never did embarrasing temper tantrum in public places. I was ademant on keeping my agreements with them, just so I could help them get a grip on themselves.

I don't know if you get what I'm saying and I'm probably not getting this out correctly but if not I will be happy to elaborate.

By know we all know where I stand on this topic, I do still find it odd that people associate an occasional spank with hitting and abusiveness, which even I have said is wrong, I found this "parenting manual" on another site and was HORRIFIED, when you all have a second take a look. I see a clear difference between the once in a blue moon spank and spanking as your only form of puishment.

TO TRAIN UP A CHILD by Michael &amp; Debi Pearl

Thanks for the link, I will read this and get back to the thread with my comments.

 

[bssage]

I agree with the OP. As in life certian behaviours require different consequences. If the result of a childs actions could result in serious harm to themselfs or others I think it is our responsability as good parents to make an impression that will not be forgoten when we are not around to provide guidence.

This is not playing around or an experment. We are highlighting a behaviour that could mame or kill.

I do not want to be the parent whose kid hurts someone else or is killed/injured by a car saying " I gave him/her a timeout or set a good example the last time that happens.

Of course this should always be done with good parenting pratices I.E. Setting a good example, explaining concequences before it becomes an issue.

Only a last resourt and not as much punishment as a way to highlight concequences of this behaviour are swift and seroius. (I am talking about a attention getting swat not a punch to the face)

Bryan

 

[Dadu2004]

I would agree with you. I would never spank my child as a normal type of punishment...only in those circumstances that would cause harm to herself or another. I avoid spanking at all costs, but would do it if absolutely necessary.

 

[bssage]

I was in a hurry in my last post but here are the things I was spanked for and yes I recall the events very clearly.

Disrepecting my mother (cursing her). After several warnings
carrying a can of gas to a brush fire. After several warnings
Hurting a girl in 2nd grade. (kicked her chair out from under her, 6 stitches. My Mom was working as a nurse in the emergancy room.) Is a warning really nessasary here?

How many timouts or lectures or restricted privilages do I rember?

My spankings were with a belt and bent over a bed with my pants around my ankles. Am I mad at my parents? Absolutely not. Did I do these things again? Absolutely not. Am I in any way harmed from my parents action? No.

I now have two children of my own a boy 8 and a daughter (Autistic) 7. They are my only hobbie I spend all of my free time with them. I would without a thought lay down my life for either one. And would come completely unglued if someone harmed them. All I want is for them to grow up happy with thier life and healthy. Someone wants to tell me I'm a bad parent for spanking if the situation warrents it.

Bottom line:
People, Parents and children are all different. And as such many times require a different statagy. You have to do what works for you and for your children. If your children respond adaquately without a occasional swat. Thats great really great and I am being serious. IF not you have to find what does before its to late.
there is a funny saying that goes something like this. " Its all fun and games until someone loses and eye."

 

[Dadu2004]

Good post Bryan. I definately wouldn't spank with a belt with pants around the ankles...my personal opinion is there is a big difference in spanking with a hand on top of clothing and "spanking" with an object on bare flesh.

 

[bssage]

I agree Dadu. I was just makin a point

Bryan

 

[NinJaBob]

I'm curious to hear from those who spank. Do you spank your children in front of other people? Why or why not? The reason I ask is because my wife's best friend spanks or used to spank her children in front of everyone. No matter where they were. We asked her to not do it in front of our children because we see it as violence and we don't want our children to emulate her and start spanking each other for fun. Which they did after they say her a couple of times. Now at least when we are around she takes her kids in a different room and takes care of business which we very much appreciate. We don't judge her for what she does. She is doing the best that she can to raise her kids. If we had some warning we would leave the room but in the past all of a sudden they would just get it with almost no warning. We had about 2 seconds to collect our kids and leave the room when we saw her storming across the room to get one of them. We no longer have to worry about it.

How do you handle it? Just curious.

 

[bssage]

Those who spank?

I guess I will go first. As implied spanking is several times in a lifetime. Not. You didnt eat all your food SPANK. Make your bed SPANK. Get dressed for school SPANK. I get the impression that "Those who dont spank" think we are all willy nilly with the spankin all the time. If a person was to use this in that manner I would guess it would cease to be effective.

When I used my own examples there were 3. I am 42. I dont think ( No I am not speaking for everyone) anyone is suggesting to replace timeout's Lecture's or other passive forms of displine. They are used daily at my house. To the contrary if it works for you and you feel comfortable with the results. Then by all means dont spank. And if you are one of "those who spank" its as the OP said to provide a highlight and exclamation point a perminent marker. When the concquence is such as to harm themselves or others. To answer your question. If my son lights the couch that your sitting on on fire. You might want to gather your kids cause its violence time at my house. It sounds like your friends wife has some issues.

Bryan

 

[NinJaBob]

I have never accused anyone except for my own caregivers of spanking willy nilly. To make that assumption implies a hang up on your part not mine. Lighting the couch on fire seems a little bit extreme. If it gets to that point I'll probably seek help from child psychologist specifying in pyromania.

I can't remember for what reason my wife's friend spanked her children but she didn't beat them up so it was none of my business.

Again I don't judge you for doing it I just know that it's not right for our family. I only wanted to know whether or not you do it in public or in private.

You either spank or you don't. There was no negative connotation meant. You either do or you don't even if it's only been 3 times. That's all.

 

[bssage]

Your right and I apologize. Also my sense of humor is likely an aquired taste and not for all.

Your example was someone who sounds like they spank all the time. Thats generally not the case nor does it sound like anything that would be acceptable to the type of people who would frequent this forum.

Only extreme extreme would call for anything public. In fact I have a hard time working up a senerio that would warrent that (Hence the burning couch) Hopefully not a bridge I have to cross (public spanking not the couch thing).

It seems "You either spank or you don't" would be an overgeneralization like. Drink or you don't or curse or you don't. There is a lot of uncovered ground between the do's and don'ts. My 92 year old grandma says dam it occasionally but its not cursing on the same level as say my coworkers. You are correct you either do or dont. But I cannot say I do without qualifing what I am saying. I am not sure that last line makes much sense.

Anyway I did not mean to offend and apologize if I did

Bryan

 

[NinJaBob]

No problem Bryan,

I just didn't want anyone to think that I was accusing anyone of anything. Simply asking a question. Let me rephrase my question to something a little less incendiary.

If you were in a situation where you felt that it was necessary to spank your child would you do it in private if you could, or would you do it in public regardless of the situation?

I don't want to sound offensive. I think that if I was to spank my children and even though I am against it, I have been close. I would attempt to do it in private for two reasons. First to save my child the embarrassment of being corrected in public and also to save other people from feeling uncomfortable.

 

[bssage]

I agree and I agree.

 

[evilbrent]

I'd do it in public.

Which is to say that I would never never never strike my child - but (other than, say moving away from the dinner table) I would always talk to my children - happy or angry - in the same way in private as in public.

 

[bssage]

I'd do it in public.

IMHO
there will be times when your kids get a little older. Some descretion can be usefull when a correction is needed.


Bryan