4 year old behavioral issues......

[Xero]

I really don't cater to his every whim, I mean there are some areas that I do allow him probably more control than he should have, I agree. I let him manipulate his eating situation to a degree because of my worries. You don't understand, many people have told me exactly what you are telling me about this and I have tried going for weeks of saying fine go ahead and starve or don't drink or what have you. He literally starved himself and actually lost weight! It was bad and I felt like the worst parent on the planet, I just didn't see why it was such a big deal to have things my way, so big of a deal that I would let my child waste away over it. I am willing to try it again since it has been a while since that happened, but I have a lot of anxiety over it.

Other than that, I really don't see how I cater to him. I always send him back to bed with short responses (although I get it, you want me to give no response), I don't give him lots of attention when he gets up, I just give him a short answer (except certain times he seems genuinely afraid) and I sent him back. When he does something mean to Tyler, he goes directly to time out every time. I suppose I could start putting him in time out for putting things on his mouth, I guess it just seemed like something he didn't realize he was doing and maybe a bit petty. When he says nasty things to me or makes nasty faces, he goes in time out. I mean, other than some of the eating issues I really don't let him get away with much.

He always knows why he is being punished. You didn't even ask me that. What you asked me was:

"Does he know what is expected of him, why it is expected and what will happen if he fails your expectations?"

And the fact about that is that I'd like to think so, but I am not 100% sure. I don't know if he remembers every little thing. Or what happened when he did it. And there are plenty of things yet to happen that will be all new to our situation that he couldn't possibly know yet. You get what I mean? EVERY single time he is punished, I make absolutely certain to tell him exactly why. First I ask him why, and then if he can't remember I will tell him, or even if he can I will elaborate and have him repeat things to make sure it got in his head. I never punish him without explaining. I am well aware what a mistake that is.

I don't want him to be out of control, but at the same time I want to treat him like the human being that he is and not like some disobedient dog. I am trying to be no-tolerance and put my foot down. Trust me, I have gotten much much more strict over the past several months. Before that he really didn't need much correction, and the little random things just weren't a big deal. I really am working on it. I just hate the idea of being some crazy strict jerk with no consideration for my child's very real feelings.

 

[parentastic]

Hello Xero, I have read the whole thread in detail, it looks like a really difficult situation.

I have a few questions to assess what might be going on, assuming it's not a pathology requiring medication. I am trying to get a feel for the family patterns as a whole, to put things in context:


<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• What is the family situation (are both parents present? Do parents work or stay home?)</LI>
  <LI>
• Is your son in Daycare? If so, on what schedule?</LI>
  <LI>
• What would a typical work-day look like in terms of schedule? (from waking up to sleeping routine)</LI>
  <LI>
• How do you usually handle discipline? Is it handled differently by both parents? If you are using punishment, what kind of punishment?</LI>
  <LI>
• How were you parented yourself? How was your son's father's parented? (mostly about discipline, nurturing, control, communication, etc)</LI>
  <LI>
• How do you usually communicate in the couple with each other? With children? (from ignoring each other / cold / stonewalling to respectful communication every-time to yelling / name calling on the other extreme)?</LI>
  <LI>
• Are there other important influences in your son's life, other than his parents? (grand parents? teacher? etc) with whom he may be attached?</LI>
  <LI>
• Has there been recent (or not so recent) significant events in his life? For instance, his brother's birth is one (they are 3 and half year old apart, I think). Did he have any serious injury at some point, an accident, or something that happened that could have been a shocking, dangerous or traumatic experience?</LI>
  <LI>
• Any accident in the family? Major stress? Job loss for one or both of you? Death in the extended family or health issues?</LI>
  <LI>
• Can you describe a typical recent time you have spent some quality time ONLY with him? How long ago was it? How long did you spent with him? What did you do? What happened?</LI>

</LIST>

This will help me help you, hopefully!

 

[stjohnjulie]

I think the diet thing is a big one that should be tackled. Make sure you make lots of notes for your trip to the Dr. I know I have to do that so I don't forget to leave something out. Even if it seems like a small detail, it could be something important for the Dr. to put the whole thing together. If Eli is allergic to milk, he shouldn't have any, period. (that's what you said, right? He's allergic to milk?) And if he is having lots of milk, it is likely filling him up and he doesn't feel like he has to eat much. Of course, all questions to ask the Dr. Hang in there kiddo. Seems like everybody here has some good suggestions and things to think about. It's quite obvious that everyone here cares about you very much.

 

[stjohnjulie]

Xero... you might want to google "ADHD Pica" I found some interesting information about the relation between ADHD and dietary issues. I guess a lot of people with ADHD also have an iron deficiency.

 

[mom2many]

I just hate the idea of being some crazy strict jerk with no consideration for my child's very real feelings.

This last sentence is very telling. I've told you (I think) that Aiden is emotional beyond emotional. He also can be an angry and stubborn 5 year old. I can remember all of them being this way to some extent, but Aiden takes the cake. You can recognize his feelings, and still parent him. Acknowledge that he is hurt/upset/mad/angry while letting him know that it is okay to feel that way, the behavior is not. Offer other suggestions as ways to cope with the emotions he is feeling.

 

[Xero]

Thank you Julie. I have definitely been making notes. And I am going to cut the milk out completely as soon as we get back from vacation (we are leaving on Monday). I don't want to do anything drastic right now that I will have to deal with during our trip. I want it to be as stress free as possible! When we get back, I'm all for it. And I truly appreciate everyone's answers and time.

What is the family situation (are both parents present? Do parents work or stay home?)

I am married, he is the father of both of my boys, we have been together for 7 years. We live together and always have. I have been staying home since Tyler (the baby) was born and DH works full time plus usually a good amount of overtime. He is gone or sleeping (he mostly works 3rd shift) much of the time.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Is your son in Daycare? If so, on what schedule?</LI>

</LIST>

No, neither of them have ever been in daycare. Eli started preschool this past September, which was Monday Wednesday Friday every week from 12:30-3:00pm, but the school year has ended for him and he is home again now. I try to set him up with play dates and take them to the park as often as possible, and he also starts soccer and swimming lessons in June, to keep him busy until school starts again in September.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• What would a typical work-day look like in terms of schedule? (from waking up to sleeping routine)</LI>

</LIST>

Considering I stay home with them, the fact that my husband works doesn't usually change anything, and the schedule is pretty much always the same. I get them up at 8am and we have breakfast shortly after. Then they will watch TV and play with toys for a bit. Lunch around noon and then Tyler goes down for his nap. While Tyler is sleeping Eli and I will do something like coloring or puzzles or whatever. If the weather is decent, when Tyler wakes up we spend most of the day outside, either playing in the back yard or I push Tyler in the stroller around the neighborhood while Eli rides his bike with us. I try to go to the park or to friend's houses whenever I can, and if I do it's during this time. I come in around 4 to cook dinner and we usually eat by 5-5:30 and then go back outside. We usually come back in by 7, at which time I give them a bath. Usually done in the bath by 7:30, then they just chill out in jammies, we read books, brush teeth and go to bed at 8pm. Tyler falls asleep nursing in minutes and then the battle begins with Eli.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• How do you usually handle discipline? Is it handled differently by both parents? If you are using punishment, what kind of punishment?</LI>

</LIST>

Usually I will try to give a clear verbal warning first (depending on the offense, some of them don't get a warning) and then I will put him in time out. DH is the same I guess, but he rarely ever handles discipline, that's usually all me.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• How were you parented yourself? How was your son's father's parented? (mostly about discipline, nurturing, control, communication, etc)</LI>

</LIST>

That's hard to explain and probably both really long stories haha... I will try to sum it up if I can. Up until I was 13, I was physically and mentally abused by my single mother who was addicted to abusing narcotics, and who spent all of her days and nights laying in bed in a drug induced stupor until she got up the energy to get up and chase me down to beat me over something. At 13 I was finally placed in foster care and eventually adopted by my foster mother. She never layed a hand on us, although she was a very strict christian extremist and everything was "evil" and we weren't allowed to go anywhere or do anything that held the slightest chance of us getting into trouble. I guess if anything she yelled a lot (though never swore or was nasty). As the oldest, I spent most of my spare time helping parent the other kids and cleaning the house, because that's what she always expected of me.

DH's parents separated when he was very young, maybe two, and his mom fell out of the picture for a while to drink and party and act like a kid instead of a mom. His dad raised him for half of his childhood, he was a good man but let his new wife get too involved with Steve and she is an extremely unpleasant woman and he always hated her. The other half of his life his grandma raised him, and she pretty much just let him do whatever he wanted to do.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• How do you usually communicate in the couple with each other? With children? (from ignoring each other / cold / stonewalling to respectful communication every-time to yelling / name calling on the other extreme)?</LI>

</LIST>

We never call names or anything, and we ALMOST never yell. Neither of us are the yelling types. We are quiet people, if anything we might get passive aggressive at times. We really honestly don't fight much. Sometimes I get to wondering if we need to fight more just to resolve things that we like to ignore haha. Like I said though we rarely fight, most of the time we talk to each other very pleasantly and with interest, and a lot of it is even laughing and joking and playing around. If we need to argue about something, we do it out of ear shot of the kids and if anything it's just a heated discussion that usually doesn't last long because neither of us wants to be mad at the other. We always try to be respectful around the kids.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Are there other important influences in your son's life, other than his parents? (grand parents? teacher? etc) with whom he may be attached?</LI>

</LIST>

I'm not sure how you would define important, but my son does see my mom and my DH's mom every now and again. Sometimes spends the night. Doesn't spend a ton of time with either though. He might feel attached to his one teacher he always talks about, although I'm not sure. Again, the school year is over though.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Has there been recent (or not so recent) significant events in his life? For instance, his brother's birth is one (they are 3 and half year old apart, I think). Did he have any serious injury at some point, an accident, or something that happened that could have been a shocking, dangerous or traumatic experience?</LI>

</LIST>

All I can think of is yes, his brother's birth, also we moved like 8-9 months ago. Oh, and he had surgery to have his tonsils and adenoids removed in December.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Any accident in the family? Major stress? Job loss for one or both of you? Death in the extended family or health issues?</LI>

</LIST>

None of that other than I will say there has been some stress that he may or may not be aware of (I try my best to keep him unaware, but I just never know). DH has had some mental health problems since the beginning of last summer. He has had a ton of depression and anxiety, and strange behavior, has been angry and mean at times, and also suicidal. Majority of this has been resolved but it was an ongoing thing for a while and we were also having trouble relationship-wise because of it. I swear though, I have always tried my hardest to keep Eli from knowing about it all. All I can say is that he obviously still probably noticed his dad acting strangely (during this time he completely ignored the kids and would get irritated with them easily). I am ashamed that my kids had to deal with that but there just wasn't anything I could do. DH has since then gotten professional help and is medicated now and doing amazing. Never acts strange anymore and he's great with the kids.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Can you describe a typical recent time you have spent some quality time ONLY with him? How long ago was it? How long did you spent with him? What did you do? What happened?</LI>

</LIST>

I am ashamed to say I can't think of much. I don't get much opportunity to do that. I mean, I get alone time with him during Tyler's naps and sometimes I will take him to the store with me alone and he will do great and we have a great time.

 

[akmom]

Kids thrive on routine. Plan a routine that works for you, and stick with it. (Don't plan it around your kids. They don't know what they want or need, they just think they do, and will adjust to whatever you choose.) Make time for meals, chores, one-on-one time for each child, play time, and downtime for you (during which time the kid(s) nap or do an independent activity). Kids don't tend to have outbursts or meltdowns when they know what to expect, and it also helps with sleep.

I might also suggest you skip threats and bribes, especially empty ones, since kids know if you won't follow through. Just do whatever it is you are going to do... put kid in timeout, toss his dessert, whatever. Don't warn, threaten or bribe. They'll get the hang of it without the verbal delays.

Here are some of the things that work for me with my children, who are a little younger. When my kids don't respond to immediate discipline, I put them straight to bed. I figure, either they are tired, or they are under the delusion that acting out will get them their way. Putting them to bed solves either cause. We also have a "recovery area" where they get to sit and wait if they are crying or bellowing about something, and I think they're being dramatic, but it's not technically a tantrum. If they stub a toe and cry for more than a minute, I set them in the "recovery area" - which is a secluded area by the staircase - and they have to wait there until they are finished crying. I tell them that a safe quiet area will help it feel better faster, when in reality I know they will get bored and lonely and force themselves to stop crying so they can come back out. As for the food thing, I make most dinners the same: a protein, a carb, and a vegetable. I let them "choose" the vegetable, since it really doesn't matter which one, so they feel like it's what they wanted. They know that they have to have a vegetable, a carb and a protein, and they won't get seconds unless they finish all three, so they just accept it. Sometimes they finish it, sometimes they pick at it, sometimes they don't eat at all. But truly, I know they won't starve themselves to death, so I'm not worried and never offer alternatives. Unless your doctors says he's malnourished, you probably don't need to worry about it either. All you can do is offer a balanced meal and hope for the best.

Good luck! A new baby is a big transition; it can only get better, I think.

 

[parentastic]

OK Xero, thanks for the answers. I am starting to get a feel for the family dynamics. Sorry to hear about your own past experience, I realize I was asking some pretty personal questions. Thanks for your trust.

OK So let me summarize what I understand from your son's point of view, so far:

1 - Your son seems to have a difficult temperament, regardless of the situation: difficulty with controlling his emotions, possibly a lower threshold for delayed gratification, some tendency to be more easily insecure and/or develop anxiety, and difficulty with changing his mind / be flexible and adaptive / handling frustrations. Assuming that the above is not pathological, it is a factor that may aggravate under stress and when the conditions aren't going well.

For this, Dr Ross Green's book, "summary of the book content here. By the way, inflexible / explosive children share some common trait with ADHD/ADD, something to investigate as many posters outlined above, too.

2 - You son might be in a significant amount of stress and anxiety right now. Here is how he may see things (unconsciously, not consciously). These events are important and they seem to add-up together:


<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Daddy became sick and really strange with me. The house became very alien when this happen. Mom and dad aren't talking about it and they tried to hide it, but it still "feels" weird. Is it my fault? If suddenly my daddy can no longer recognize me, can it happen again? Can it happen with my mom?</LI>

</LIST>

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Mom had a new baby. She doesn't really need me anymore now. She spends most of her time with him. Do I still matter for her? Or for daddy? After all, I haven't spent any time only with them without my little brother in a very long time. Maybe I am not that important anymore for them? When I was in school I can understand they couldn't see me, but now I am here! Even in the evening, when finally there is some time with mommy and Tyler is asleep, she'd rather have me sleep too. Do they want to "keep me busy" away from them?</LI>

</LIST>

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• When Tyler was born, not only was I not the only one mommy and daddy likes anymore, but we had to MOVE. It's not as much my home anymore now. It's different.</LI>

</LIST>

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Just about right after my life was changed forever with having a brother in my family, and right after I had moved and had to adapt to a new place, WHAM, I have a surgery. That was scary. Can it happen again? Am I safe?</LI>

</LIST>
Add all these in a short time span (last year), which represents a little less than one fourth of his ENTIRE LIFE (a lot for a child), and add his weakness to flexibility and adaptability in his temperament,and you may get the picture of what is going on: a massive increase in his insecurities and a need to act out in order to try to get back into a place of safety.

This is just a tentative possible root cause, from the systemic level (the whole family, not just your son), I am going with what I have, assuming no physiological or mental issue.

I want to address some of the above points in greater details now:

3 - DH mental health issues. It's VERY significant, IMO. Even if you did the best you could to hide it, you can be certain it had an effect on your son. In order to mitigate this, I am wondering if you had taken the time to really have a talk with your son about what happened to daddy. Or better yet, if DH had this talk with his son. It's a very important talk. Let me know about this and we can discuss it further, if needs be. (I am asking because if you worked real hard to hide it, chances are it was never fully addressed now that it is over).

4 - Alone time with your son. There is no need to be ashamed, Xero... it's a crazily difficult schedule, I think you are already awesome to do what you do. So it's not a blame at all! It's more an observation. When children are insecure, a fully attentive, 100% present alone-time with a parent on a regular basis can work miracles to restore the attachment and the safety he lacks. It can also reduce the anxiety and attenuate the effect of his temperament. (just like sleep, also: many good remarks by other posters about how MORE difficult the situation can become when children don't sleep properly).
So - I don't know how possible it is, but if you could find a way to redesign your schedule in order to offer a 20 minutes of alone-unique quality time with your son every so often (every day, ideally), it could really help. It might be difficult with your husband's schedule, I realize.
If you can find a way, include your son in the planning: create a calendar, show him the squares where there are special time for both of you alone, teach him how to cross each day as it passes. It may help.
NOTE: I realize this is at the opposite of what other posters may have posted. Your son needs more time with you. Not timeouts, as timeouts reinforce the insecurity and anxiety.

5 - Does he shares a room with Taylor? Does he has his own room? Do you co-sleep with him sometimes? Or with the baby?

6 - Have you had a conversation about surgery recently? To process the experience, how scary it was, if he still dreams or thinks about it?

Let me know what you think.
Take care,

 

[Xero]

Xero... you might want to google "ADHD Pica" I found some interesting information about the relation between ADHD and dietary issues. I guess a lot of people with ADHD also have an iron deficiency.

Wow, really? Thanks, I will definitely google more on that.

1 - Your son seems to have a difficult temperament, regardless of the situation: difficulty with controlling his emotions, possibly a lower threshold for delayed gratification, some tendency to be more easily insecure and/or develop anxiety, and difficulty with changing his mind / be flexible and adaptive / handling frustrations. Assuming that the above is not pathological, it is a factor that may aggravate under stress and when the conditions aren't going well.

I definitely agree, that is all him what you described there. Thank you for the book recommendation, I will order it right away. I can use all the help I can get. I have also read about ADHD and he really seems to have all the symptoms. We will see more about that with the doctor I imagine.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Daddy became sick and really strange with me. The house became very alien when this happen. Mom and dad aren't talking about it and they tried to hide it, but it still "feels" weird. Is it my fault? If suddenly my daddy can no longer recognize me, can it happen again? Can it happen with my mom?</LI>

</LIST>

I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I had a hard time not crying while reading this. This is one of my greatest fears, that he feels like this. And you're probably completely right.

<LIST>

• 
  <LI>
• Mom had a new baby. She doesn't really need me anymore now. She spends most of her time with him. Do I still matter for her? Or for daddy? After all, I haven't spent any time only with them without my little brother in a very long time. Maybe I am not that important anymore for them? When I was in school I can understand they couldn't see me, but now I am here! Even in the evening, when finally there is some time with mommy and Tyler is asleep, she'd rather have me sleep too. Do they want to "keep me busy" away from them?</LI>

</LIST>

DH does spend alone time with him, it's me that doesn't do it. DH takes him to the movies and to the store and outside to work on the house with him. Sometimes out to visit family or shoot bb guns. I am always scared he feels like this too, and he probably does!

Add all these in a short time span (last year), which represents a little less than one fourth of his ENTIRE LIFE (a lot for a child), and add his weakness to flexibility and adaptability in his temperament,and you may get the picture of what is going on: a massive increase in his insecurities and a need to act out in order to try to get back into a place of safety.

That makes so much sense. He really has been through a lot the past year.

3 - DH mental health issues. It's VERY significant, IMO. Even if you did the best you could to hide it, you can be certain it had an effect on your son. In order to mitigate this, I am wondering if you had taken the time to really have a talk with your son about what happened to daddy. Or better yet, if DH had this talk with his son. It's a very important talk. Let me know about this and we can discuss it further, if needs be. (I am asking because if you worked real hard to hide it, chances are it was never fully addressed now that it is over).

You're right, I feel silly for thinking I could really hide it from him and he wouldn't notice. I mean, of course he noticed. He just wouldn't know what to say about it if he was thinking about it. I haven't talked to him about it at all. I guess I just wanted the whole situation to go away. I should talk to him about it. I'm not sure what to say. Maybe you have some suggestions?

So - I don't know how possible it is, but if you could find a way to redesign your schedule in order to offer a 20 minutes of alone-unique quality time with your son every so often (every day, ideally), it could really help. It might be difficult with your husband's schedule, I realize.
If you can find a way, include your son in the planning: create a calendar, show him the squares where there are special time for both of you alone, teach him how to cross each day as it passes. It may help.
NOTE: I realize this is at the opposite of what other posters may have posted. Your son needs more time with you. Not timeouts, as timeouts reinforce the insecurity and anxiety.

I am definitely going to work on this. It may not be picture perfect, but I am going to try to make it better. And honestly, trust me this answer feels better to me. Punishing him more just doesn't feel right, and I don't want to.

5 - Does he shares a room with Tyler? Does he has his own room? Do you co-sleep with him sometimes? Or with the baby?

He has his own room, Tyler co-sleeps with us. He is welcome to come sleep with us if he is scared or anything like that and he knows it. He sometimes shows up.

6 - Have you had a conversation about surgery recently? To process the experience, how scary it was, if he still dreams or thinks about it?

I haven't, I guess I thought if he was thinking about it, that he would ask me about it. I just worried I guess that if I brought it up more then I might give him negative thoughts for no reason.

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[parentastic]

I definitely agree, that is all him what you described there. Thank you for the book recommendation, I will order it right away. I can use all the help I can get.

Yes, I think you will find this reference very pertinent

I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I had a hard time not crying while reading this. This is one of my greatest fears, that he feels like this. And you're probably completely right.

I am sorry to read this, Xero. You know, I think many many children feel that way, to a certain extent, some of the time... and it's okay. Just asking yourself about it and wanting to break the pattern is already something very big! Children aren't devious, calculating manipulators, they are just mostly clueless and distressed and they act out as an (ineffective) way to cope with things that they can't really explain, because they don't have yet the vocabulary or the cognitive ability to grasp it fully.

DH does spend alone time with him, it's me that doesn't do it. DH takes him to the movies and to the store and outside to work on the house with him. Sometimes out to visit family or shoot bb guns. I am always scared he feels like this too, and he probably does!

Well, I think that's the advantage of being two! A tight couple can really make the difference, relay each other, be present at different moments and in different tasks to help their children. So I think it is great daddy is taking that time with DS. I am wondering if you could switch from time to time? Perhaps DH could take care of the baby for an evening or two a week and you could spend that quality time with your son too.

Also, when you do, tell him! Tell him you are taking a special time, that it is important for you, that you do this on purpose JUST FOR HIM He needs to hear this a lot.

That makes so much sense. He really has been through a lot the past year.

He did, but now, it's going to get better, I think.

You're right, I feel silly for thinking I could really hide it from him and he wouldn't notice. I mean, of course he noticed. He just wouldn't know what to say about it if he was thinking about it. I haven't talked to him about it at all. I guess I just wanted the whole situation to go away. I should talk to him about it. I'm not sure what to say. Maybe you have some suggestions?

Yes. I think that both of you should speak to him, at a different moment, in a good time (when you feel the connection, alone with him, nothing to break the mood, etc).
You can start like this:
"Do you remember when daddy was all weird, last year? I am so glad he is good now. I was scared a little. Where you scared?"
It's a balance. You want to show him that you share some of his feelings (that you are guessing at this point) while at the same time not making a fuss bigger than he may feel either. yet at the same time, you need to stay fully authentic and real. it *was* probably scary for you. And it was probably for him. So this will connect you both. Say so.
Next step - you <I>listen</I>. If he says "yes, it was", you can wait, nod, keep eye contact, and stay silent until he says more. He most likely will, because the door is open now. If he doesn't, you can add: "I think when people get sick, it's very weird sometimes. it's okay to be scared a little, you know?"

The key here in this deep conversation is:
- Try not to lead. As soon as he says something, or if you can read his non verbal, try to reflect back the emotion, validate it by rephrase it. Don't downplay it. Don't reassure. Don't say it was nothing. Just nod and use more descriptive words to help him name his emotions.
It's going to be very difficult not to reassure, because you will want to tell him it's all over and it's not going to happen. But you can't do that too soon, otherwise you will not help him get it out first. He needs to feel fully listened and understood first, before he can get reassured.

- After a while, when feelings gets named, he may get emotional, cry, cling to you, etc.. and that's good. It has to get out. THEN you can start to explain: how sometimes people get sick and they need medication, and without medication they sometimes stop remembering! And then you can talk a little about how funny-but-not-funny it is when people forget: "Can you think of what could happen when we forget?!?" and play a bit with this idea... then go back to how safe it is now because daddy saw a doctor and he now has the proper medication so he can't forget anymore!
Tell him also how he forgot everyone.. not just his son. so it's not about him. And how he was SOOOOO releived when he got the medication and remembered and how much he loves him.

All of this will have to be done by DH also, ideally.
A family counselor could help you both with that also, if you feel unsure of how to proceed.

I am definitely going to work on this. It may not be picture perfect, but I am going to try to make it better. And honestly, trust me this answer feels better to me. Punishing him more just doesn't feel right, and I don't want to.

I am glad. I am always cautious on this forum when I post now, I do realize that I operate on a different basis than most conventional parenting. I try to be respectful and not oppose people directly,yet I am also deeply convinced that children need structure and boundaries, yes, but not punishments or threats, as it adds to the deeper issue.

He has his own room, Tyler co-sleeps with us. He is welcome to come sleep with us if he is scared or anything like that and he knows it. He sometimes shows up.

Maybe he would feel good if sometimes, he feels like it's something you actually WANT rather than tolerate when he is scared. After all, from his point of view, you seem to WANT to be sleep with Tyler. He may perceive this as being loved less than the baby / jealous.

I haven't, I guess I thought if he was thinking about it, that he would ask me about it. I just worried I guess that if I brought it up more then I might give him negative thoughts for no reason.

I think the surgery can also be discussed casually without fear.
It was after all a scary experience.
One really good way to do this is to use story.
Make up a story about a boy who had some pain in his mouth and had to go to the doctor and get surgery. Make the story similar enough that he can relate and go "wow, just like me!" but not exactly the same, so he feels it's really like a story. IN the story, tell you son how the little boy was feeling, how scared but courageous he was, and how it was all better after, and how his parents had to wait outside the surgery room, and how proud they were of the boy after. This will help him tremendously to re-connect his memory with his emotions. After the story, you can have a discussion about the story and his own experience.

Thanks so much for your help.

I am glad I can help a little. Don't hesitate to email me or write here for more support, anytime.

 

[stjohnjulie]

Not trying to be pushy Xero... but I was wondering if you guys saw a doctor yet. Hope everything is going ok and you guys are getting to the bottom of it all.

 

[tadamsmar]

You need to upgrade your parenting skills. Read "Kazdin Method" or "Power of Positive Parenting" and use the techniques.

Just ignore eating behavior completely unless he eats something you want him to eat then shower him with enthusiastic praise.

Eating is easy, assuming you just want to get him to eat what you eat, that you are modeling the behavior you want.

Eating is easy because it takes no effort to get the behavior. You just do nothing, ignore him till he eats something you provided and then praise him. Meanwhile praise anyone who eats healthy food. Your spouse and you should praise each other and act very interested in each other's healthy eating, ignore the kid till he joins in.

 

[ElliottCarasDad]

You need to upgrade your parenting skills. Read "Kazdin Method" or "Power of Positive Parenting" and use the techniques.

Just ignore eating behavior completely unless he eats something you want him to eat then shower him with enthusiastic praise.

Eating is easy, assuming you just want to get him to eat what you eat, that you are modeling the behavior you want.

Eating is easy because it takes no effort to get the behavior. You just do nothing, ignore him till he eats something you provided and then praise him. Meanwhile praise anyone who eats healthy food. Your spouse and you should praise each other and act very interested in each other's healthy eating, ignore the kid till he joins in.

That's Brilliant. (And Im not British!)

 

[bssage]

You need to upgrade your parenting skills. Read "Kazdin Method" or "Power of Positive Parenting" and use the techniques.

Its hard to express tone or emotion in a post.

<I>I suggest you use the techniques in the books "Kazdin Method" or "Power of Positive Parenting".</I>

This sounds helpful

<I>"Kazdin Method" is a good book, also "Power of Positive Parenting". </I>

This sounds helpful

 

[MNDad]

Julie I AM close to ripping my hair out some days. Oh man. He has always had a bed time routine. I never give my kids caffeine, I am strongly against that. I try to avoid processed stuff and sugar but sometimes he does get it, yeah. I'd like to cut it out completely to see if that helps. Another thing that I think is a huge factor is him drinking milk. He is allergic to it (not lactose intolerant, that's different than a milk allergy) and from what I have heard it can cause skin problems and behavior problems. It's just that it's the only thing he ever wants to drink. I can't fool him with anything else ever lol. I am still trying to figure that out.

Morgan has a milk allergy (and you're right, it's different than lactose intolerance. Ever since we found that out, he has not had regular milk. At first, it was a pain, but eventually he did realize that he would have to drink something else if he was thirsty.

I would say do not even try to "fool" him, as you say. Make it clear. "You can't have milk because the doctor says your body doesn't like it" (or whatever simple language will work). Just remember (as hard as it is) that you ARE providing him with <I>something</I> to drink. It's his choice whether he drinks it or not. Luckily, he's just at that age where you can do it that way without neglecting him. There's a huge difference.

Morgan, for example, is an extremely picky eater. And for me to say that takes a lot because I was very picky (and still am in some ways). I remember a point in time when my mom simply stopped catering to me one day. I was about Morgan's age (6). I complained about whatever it was we were eating. Until then she would make one of the few things I liked. One day, she just said, "That's IT...this is NOT a restaurant." From then on, I had a choice...eat what was in front of me or don't eat. It's not neglect...she was providing me with a meal. We have done the same with Morgan and he has adapted well. If I make beef stroganoff, it's up to HIM to pull out the onions if he doesn't want them.

My point is that you can't cater to him...in anything. Including the bedtime/morning routines. I agree with the others. Remove the obstacles to getting to sleep so there aren't any excuses left. At the same time, you say getting him up at 8 a.m. is a struggle and then he's crabby all day. Maybe I missed this in one of the posts, but have you tried explaining to him why he's crabby? I mean IN the moment, not afterward. "I think you're a little crabby right now, and it's because you didn't go to sleep when you were supposed to..." Add in there that <I>you</I> get crabby when <I>you</I> don't get enough sleep (so he knows it's normal). The important thing is that he connects the action (not going to bed/sleep on time) to the consequence (being tired and crabby all day, which leads to misbehavior, which leads to additional consequences for that behavior, etc.). Morgan only had an issue going to sleep when he and my wife first moved in with me (he's my step-son, technically), and that's only because my MIL and FIL would allow him to stay up until 10 or 11 at night and cater to whatever he wanted. But we got it to stop quickly with the constant reminders of why sleep is important. Now, almost 100% of the time, he will either tell us he wants to go to bed or go immediately when we tell him to. And he's asleep in 10 minutes or less.

Now, the only caution I'll throw out there is that you cannot use sleep as a punishment, or put any twist on it that makes it sound like it might remotely be a punishment. In other words, don't send him to bed with any kind of negative vibe, I guess. Keep it positive. "You need to get good, long sleep tonight so you'll be ready to play tomorrow." Beyond plenty of praise and recognition for going to bed well, I wouldn't reward him with anything specific, at least not for very long. Otherwise he'll come to expect it when really he needs to learn that going to bed on time is normal.

Keep us posted!

 

[MNDad]

I forgot one thing. We use time-outs, but here's how we find they're effective:

Morgan knows that a time-out is for 6 minutes (we use his age, so next year it will be 7 minutes). BUT, the catch is that the timer doesn't start until he stops crying/misbehaving/throwing a fit. Reminding him of that gets it to stop REALLY quickly.

 

[tadamsmar]

If he is not losing weight, he must be consuming something.

If he is consuming sugary drinks you can switch to sugar free drinks and that will increase his appetite for other things.

 

[Xero]

bssage... my thoughts exactly haha.

tadamsmar - No, he is not losing weight, because I insist that he has at least a couple of bites at each meal. He does not drink sugary drinks. He drinks milk (which I am putting a stop to) and water, sometimes the occasional 100% juice.

Thank you MNDad, that was all very helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to me like that.

I wanted to update that I've been trying really hard to regulate his sleep better, and all of my modifications seem to be making an impact. He has been falling asleep earlier and earlier each night (with the occasional off night).

I have also been setting up one on one time for us as much as possible lately, and you know I didn't even realize how desperately we needed that. It blew me away the difference in his behavior when I spent time with him alone, as opposed to his behavior (and my reactions to it) when I have him together with his brother. It actually makes me feel kind of guilty. Like maybe if he were an only child, we would have a better relationship and he would be doing much better behaviorally (I know that's terrible to say, it was just an honest observation). Well I wouldn't trade my second little guy for anything obviously. The one on one time has been great. His behavior especially towards me has been improving if only a bit. I feel bad that we weren't doing this before.

I tried talking to him about his surgery, but it was kind of a flop lol. I told him I read a story about a boy who went through a similar thing, and all he said was "I want to read that story" haha. I asked if something like that happened to him, and he said "Um yeah a long time ago" and I asked him "what happened? what was it like?" and he said "I don't remember". I couldn't think of anything else to ask without putting thoughts into his head so it failed. Oh well, I did try. I still have yet to have the conversation with him about DH.

On a side note, he is doing amazingly in his soccer and swimming lessons.

 

[parentastic]

I have also been setting up one on one time for us as much as possible lately, and you know I didn't even realize how desperately we needed that. It blew me away the difference in his behavior when I spent time with him alone, as opposed to his behavior (and my reactions to it) when I have him together with his brother. It actually makes me feel kind of guilty. Like maybe if he were an only child, we would have a better relationship and he would be doing much better behaviorally (I know that's terrible to say, it was just an honest observation). Well I wouldn't trade my second little guy for anything obviously. The one on one time has been great. His behavior especially towards me has been improving if only a bit. I feel bad that we weren't doing this before.

Great! I am happy to hear things are improving. The one-on-one time really can make a difference. Please don't feel guilty about it.. it's life. It's hard and I think you can be proud of yourself for finding a way to make it happen despite the difficult schedule. Only-child have different problems to solve, having a brother can also have many great aspects for him. It doesn't matter what you were not doing before, what matters is what works today, now.

I tried talking to him about his surgery, but it was kind of a flop lol. I told him I read a story about a boy who went through a similar thing, and all he said was "I want to read that story" haha. I asked if something like that happened to him, and he said "Um yeah a long time ago" and I asked him "what happened? what was it like?" and he said "I don't remember". I couldn't think of anything else to ask without putting thoughts into his head so it failed. Oh well, I did try.

No worries there. If it didn't work, it's even better, it probably means he is OK with it and the experience didn't impact him too much. Which is a good thing! If you want to reiterate the attempt, eventually, you could search in your local bookstore or kid's library for a story with a boy going for surgery and buy it and read it to him, and see if that generates more discussion. But I think if it had been in his mind a lot he would have taken the open door to talk about it. So that's good!

I still have yet to have the conversation with him about DH.

Yes. That one is a key piece, I think.

On a side note, he is doing amazingly in his soccer and swimming lessons.

I am so happy to hear things are improving, Xero
Keep us updated!

 

[mom2many]

YAY Xero, I am so glad that things are looking up for you guys!