Continuation of "how do you explain gay?"...

[Aylaissi]

I found this thread pretty interesting I must say, there are definitely a few points I would like to address. First the main question though how do you explain gay to a child.... Well obviously age is a factor in this but honesty and being properly informed yourself are the two keys. Obviously if your child is younger make it more simple just tell them it is when two boys or two girls like each other as more than friends, or whatever way your child will best understand which is something only you will know without changing the facts.

If your child wants to know about two gay lions having cubs read them the story of the two gay penguins at the zoo. Sorry I can not remember the zoo off the top of my head but there are books on it and I am sure you can easily google it. It is good to show how they can not have children of their own, but yes they can have families still.

As far as what do they do if so and so touched them. Well it is no more likely you will hear that about the same sex as the opposite and should not be handled any different.

Now for one of the interesting tangents from this thread. Nobody can change sexual orientation one way or another. You may grow, learn and understand different parts of yourself, but you are what you are. I personally am pan-sexual, I have tried to be different things, tried to push myself one way or another and it is not possible. My exgirlfriend went through a midlife crisis where she thought she was no longer a lesbian, she was even with a man. In the end though she figured out it was just her biological clock pushing her to want children more, she could never really be anything but a lesbian, that is who she is, what her heart desires.

 

[malevolent]

I think it's important to explain to your kids that homosexuality is not a choice, and that people do not choose who they are attracted to. They are people just like everyone else and they deserve equal respect. I think this will help people to be less homophobic and more accepting.

 

[Henrike]

Please change "turn" for any word you like, but the question here is how to explain that in simple words.

"make you become" gay?

I would talk about love first, not "making babies". I think a lot of heterosexuals emphasize the "sex" bit too much and that's where it becomes awkward to explain homosexuality.

 

[MinnDad714]

For me, the "gay question" really isn't all that important, nor is it worth explaning. I have gay friends. The church that we attend has gay couples who also have children - so, with my daughter, it has just been a fact of life. Some families consist of two men, some with two women, and some with a man and a woman. While I don't make a political point in her life (I'd rather her make her own decisions on gay marriage and such), gay people's existence are just a very common part of our lives and it's just a fact of life.

 

[EnoMae]

<t>I personally don't think it is something that is meant to be discussed in details, simply because it should not be seen as something out of the ordinary. Would you explain heterosexuality to your child? I bet not.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I have a few gay friends and my daughter knows them very well. In fact, she is very close to one of them and loves him very much. Of course, she had asked before why he doesn’t have a girlfriend, but I simply told her that he has a boyfriend instead. We did not make a big deal out of it, and it was not confusing to her. It was a fact. Love is love, and making a big deal out of homosexuality is indirectly telling a child that it is not normal. There is a huge difference between uncommon (it depends where you are from, because it is quite common where I live) and not normal. Seeing homosexual couples is rare (again, depending where you live) but it is as normal a seeing a straight couple walking down the street.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Also, parents who try to explain homosexuality to young children seem to think about the sexual part of it way too much. “A man is gay if they love A BOY but he is straight if they love A GIRL.” It is teaching the child that there is a huge difference, and some might think that one is normal and the other is not. I don’t know how to put this in words (sorry for my very limited vocabulary) but basically, I am saying that we should not talk about it as if it was something incredible.</t>

 

[cybele]

I dont think it should be explained as much as normlised. Like others have said, its not something incredible that needs a long winded explinatio, its just normal.

One of my big parenting regrets that I will forever dwell on is the explination and unintentionally putting it out there that it was a big deal, it wasnt my intention, I thought I was going about it the right way, but it made Dita very scared and very nervous to come out, because dwspite how normal it was to her, she did feel like she was seen as abnorma and needed to explain herself, and the thought that I accidentally contributed to those feelings is something im yet to overcome.

I think if a child asks "yeah, they love each other, cool beans" goes furthet than "okay honey now some boys like boys and some girls like girls and thats okay but mummy and daddy like each other etc etc"

 

[IADad]

so, about a week ago I got a slightly different question, "so, men can only marry women, right?" um.....okay, so without getting too explainy (for a 5 yo) I tried to explain that it was legal for a man to marry a man or a woman marry a woman, but that some churches don't do those weddings, they only did weddings for man/woman couples....I have no idea what point I made. I wanted to just explain, and above all didn't want to lie....

 

[bssage]

so, about a week ago I got a slightly different question, "so, men can only marry women, right?" um.....okay, so without getting too explainy (for a 5 yo) I tried to explain that it was legal for a man to marry a man or a woman marry a woman, but that some churches don't do those weddings, they only did weddings for man/woman couples....I have no idea what point I made. I wanted to just explain, and above all didn't want to lie....

Sounds good to me

 

[Testing]

There has been no link to genetics and homosexuality. Actually, studies have had more success linking homosexuality to child abuse (although this was a small percent) and those raised by heterosexual as opposed to homosexual parents (big percentage differences in this study). So to teach a child that people are born gay when scientific studies have not been able to show this through brain studies, hormonal influences, twin studies and genetics doesn't seem the way to go. There is no so called "gay gene". I would actually explain this is the lifestyle this couple has chosen for themselves and they have the same rights and freedom as everyone else to live how they choose. And it's not for me or you to judge others for their choices.

Absolutely agree. This is propaganda without basis at the highest level.

Sexuality is absolutely mutable and malleable, particularly for young people, depending upon experiences and exposures and circumstances.

Prison.

Anne Heche.

Could go on all night. I'm so tired of all this gay rhetoric, this admonition to kids that if they ever had a transient thought that confused them, that they MUST be gay and that they MUST embrace this and refute all who question this. This is a sacred cow in our society that you are not allowed to question without absolutely hateful rhetoric being hurled.

I've had enough lately. Mind your own business. I don't care WHAT you do, but keep your business to yourself and I'll do the same.

 

[parentastic]

<r><QUOTE author="Testing;131292"><s>

</s>Sexuality is absolutely mutable and malleable, particularly for young people, depending upon experiences and exposures and circumstances. <e>

</e></QUOTE>
<br/>
I am sorry, but this is flat out wrong.<br/>
Here is what the American Psychologist Association has to say about this: (my emphasis added)<br/>

<QUOTE><s>

</s><B><s></s>What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?<e></e></B><br/>
<br/>
All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. &lt;U&gt;&lt;s&gt;<U>&lt;/s&gt;To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective&lt;e&gt;</U>&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/U&gt;. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;br/&gt;
Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors.&lt;e&gt;

&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/QUOTE&gt;
Source: &lt;URL url="&lt;/s&gt;America Psychologist Association&lt;e&gt;&lt;/e&gt;&lt;/URL&gt;&lt;/r&gt;

 

[Testing]

I am sorry, but this is flat out wrong.
Here is what the American Psychologist Association has to say about this: (my emphasis added)


Source: America Psychologist Association

Did you even read what you underlined? NO research to prove/disprove anything, and that is assuming you agree that this organization is authoritative on this issue.

Assuming that, it also holds:

The APA states the following:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.

No consensus. NO consensus. No freaking idea.

Now there's an authority.

Based on this thread, you clearly have an agenda here. I could quote dozens of other sources, basically from the "we have no idea" to the " nature vs. nurture" to the advocation of one side vs. another in that dispute, but it would make no difference.

I'm tired of remaining silent because I am forced to by current standards of political correctness. Again, do whatever the heck you want, but don't ask me to approve of it, prima facie.

And it absolutely IS malleable, particularly for young people. It's even trendy today to claim to be "bi" in high schools.
​

 

[parentastic]

Did you even read what you underlined?

Of course:

No consensus. NO consensus.

The point here is that <U>each and every time</U> someone who is gay/lesbian has been "treated" to "change" their sexual orientation (that famous "maleabilty" you speak of) it has only resulted in massive failure, more distress.

You can't "cure" sexual orientation.

And it absolutely IS malleable, particularly for young people. It's even trendy today to claim to be "bi" in high schools.

Young people may seem to have a maleable sexual orientation because they are <I>discovering</I> their orientation. So they investigate, try things out, etc.

Please google the Kinsley Scale to understand how every human being has an preference that varies from fully hetero to fully homo, with many variation in between. This preference is set in stone at birth; however, you may not fullty have discovered your own preference.
This is why if your sexual orientation is bi, you might <I>think</I> you are only hetero until you disciover otherwise. It's always easier to discover a socially acceptable orientation than one that is ostracised, like being gay - so of course, because of social pressure, bi people tend to discover their straight side sooner than their gay side. But make no mistake: there is no maleabillity there, as any gay who spends all his life being marginalized very well knows.

Would YOU be ready to change YOUR sexual orientation, and assuming you are heterosexual, would you be ready to switch to gay? Please let us know. If yes - what makes you think it was not your biological preference right from before?
If no - please let us know why you think this theory of yours, this "malleabilty" would only work in one direction, from "not straight" to "straight" then? Why not in both direction?

As for the APA:
1) Yes, it certainly is a credible organization. Look it up.
2) Not having proof either way is not a proof that your little theory is right. On what do you base yourself exactly to claim this "malleability"?
I base myself on generations after generation of social pressure attempting to no avail to "cure" gays - which does not work, even in countries where they are emprisoned or killed (wouldn't it be so much simplier to just "change" if it was that malleable?)
What do you base yourself on? Wishful thinking because you don't like gays and you think they are not "natural" ? Please explain.

 

[cybele]

Testing, ive read over what you have written a few times, trying to think how to respond. Now, I know nothing of psychology, no studies, so my reaction and thouht process is purely emotional.

It scares me that there are people who think that changing something so personal about someone is okay. I think that when you put up boundries like that you are saying to someone "you are less of a human than me, you are beneath me and your feelings are invalid and wrong and you dont deserve to be comfortable and happy"

As ive stated previously,my oldest identifies as a lesbian, she has been with her girlfriend for 2 years and she is happy. I have had to fight tooth and nail for her, ive severed ties with my religious parents, who believe that appearances are more important than their granddaughters happiness, they woud rather her be miserable with a man than happy wih a woman, Dita has had to change schools due to a boy trying to 'convert' her, this boy was charged with sexual assault, but made it clear that he believed he didnt do anything wrong, once this boy started, many boys followed suit, not to that extent, but with either offers to 'convert' her, or with requests to sit in on a 'lesbian show'

From where im standing, I see no benefit of this mindset. Testing, in snother thread you stated you had teenagers? What happens if one is gay or bisexual? What wil you say to them? And dont say it wont happen, my daughter had a boyfriend before she came out, I never in a million years would have picked it. Would you tell them that they needed to supress human emotion just to make you happy?

 

[Testing]

cybele:
It scares me that there are people who think that changing something so personal about someone is okay.

Likewise, it scares me when people think something like this is automatically a fixed or inborn quantity, especially when talking about adolescents.

I think that when you put up boundries like that you are saying to someone "you are less of a human than me, you are beneath me and your feelings are invalid and wrong and you dont deserve to be comfortable and happy"

Nothing could be further from anything I have said. You are extrapolating what is not there.

As ive stated previously,my oldest identifies as a lesbian, she has been with her girlfriend for 2 years and she is happy. I have had to fight tooth and nail for her, ive severed ties with my religious parents, who believe that appearances are more important than their granddaughters happiness, they woud rather her be miserable with a man than happy wih a woman, Dita has had to change schools due to a boy trying to 'convert' her, this boy was charged with sexual assault, but made it clear that he believed he didnt do anything wrong, once this boy started, many boys followed suit, not to that extent, but with either offers to 'convert' her, or with requests to sit in on a 'lesbian show'

I'm sorry your daughter has had all of these problems. And I cannot imagine severing ties with my parents (they are deceased anyway) over their own views of marriage to which they are entitled, and which are quite appropriate and normal, especially for their generation. This is like saying your daughter's view is the only legitimate one and all acceptable people must condone her lifestyle or be excised from your life. How is this right?

Would you tell them that they needed to supress human emotion just to make you happy?

Emotions are not how we rule our lives if we have any common sense whatsoever. It isn't about "what makes me happy". Who cares about emotions? I might have the emotional pull toward another person other than my spouse, but that doesn't mean I have to follow it and destroy my family in the process. There was a teacher in the news last week who was "following his heart" when he left his wife and teen daughters for another teen girl IN HIS HIGH SCHOOL. He claimed that because he was following his heart, he must be doing the right thing. Nothing like sticking it to your daughter who attends the same high school, eh, not to mention your wife in the media?

What would I say? I would say that doing the right thing - not just doing what you want - is the only way to happiness and integrity in the long run, because it is true.

 

[cybele]

And what is 'the right thing?' youre reffering to? You didnt exactly answer the question, and no one here is talking about teacher-student relationships, thats entirely off topic.

And yes, I severed ties with my parents due to their tretment of their grnddaughter, it is my duty to protect and be there for her, not to defend them, especially on a matter of predjudice.

 

[parentastic]

Likewise, it scares me when people think something like this is automatically a fixed or inborn quantity, especially when talking about adolescents.

May I ask you why? What is scary about how someone else spends their love life?

This is like saying your daughter's view is the only legitimate one

Actually, it's more like saying your daughter's view <I>of her own love life</I> is the only legitimate one <I>for herself</I>.
What gives you the right to decide, or even to judge who she is allowed to be attracted to?

and all acceptable people must condone her lifestyle

Why is it a "lifestyle" when it's about a homosexual and a "life" when it's a heterosexual?
<I>Any</I> human being old enough to have a love life should have the right to live their life without it being judged as a "lifestyle" only because it's not the same as your own "lifestyle", isn't it?

...or be excised from your life. How is this right?

Young gay/lesbian who decide to go out of the closet and tell their parent's aren't rejecting their parents, Testing.
When it happens, it is their parents, not they, who chose to reject them away. It is their parents who put them in front of this unbearable ultimatum, to change who they are attracted to, which they cannot do anymore than you can do, or be rejected by their own parents.
So yeah, I agree, how is this right?

It isn't about "what makes me happy". Who cares about emotions?

Ok Wait, I am confused.
Do you want your daughter to be happy in her life? If she cannot be happy with the opposite gender, no matter how much she tries, (no more than you could be happy with people of the same sex by the way), would you say that it's okay to deprive her of all of her sexuality then? That she should just not love someone else, who would love her back, just under the idea that they are of the same gender?

I might have the emotional pull toward another person other than my spouse...

But not over someone of the same sex, would you? Even if your parents would have pressured you to? Even if society told you it was "bad" otherwise? Then why assume that gay/lesbian have anymore ability than you to suddenly get that "emotional pull" toward straight sex?

You do realize the double standard here?

but that doesn't mean I have to follow it and destroy my family in the process.

How does falling in love with someone who loves you back could destroy a family, Testing? Why do we even judge who someone love? For god sake's, why would it even be of any one else's business?

There was a teacher in the news last week who was "following his heart" when he left his wife and teen daughters for another teen girl IN HIS HIGH SCHOOL.

Okay, please, cut the dramatic examples.
Gay/Lesbians are ordinary human being who fall in love with other ordinary human being who are attracted, like us, to same-sex people. End of story. There isn't any more "cheating" involved than with any ordinary straight person. There isn't any special drama, abuse or family destruction.
Many gay/lesbian go in life, eventually find a mate, date, live together and eventually marry, just like any ordinary person.

What would I say? I would say that doing the right thing - not just doing what you want - is the only way to happiness and integrity in the long run, because it is true.

But what makes loving someone of the same sex <I>not</I> the right thing, please? Watch this clip: "What is morally wrong with Homosexuality"...

 

[Testing]

And yes, I severed ties with my parents due to their tretment of their grnddaughter, it is my duty to protect and be there for her, not to defend them, especially on a matter of predjudice.

Why could you not love and support your daughter and love and support your parents?

They will be dead soon enough, and then you may regret cutting them off. Why can't you just take a hard line with them, telling them you love them and you want to see them, and you prefer not to discuss this topic on which you disagree.

Rational people can actually do this. I'm supporting and loving people in my life right now with whom I do not agree whatsoever, and some of whom are actually doing really destructive things, but "it ain't over 'til it's over". There is always hope that things will change.

 

[Testing]

parentastic: May I ask you why? What is scary about how someone else spends their love life?

That isn't the question at all. You have repeatedly reframed what I actually said. What IS scary is that the whole "we are born that way" thing has been bought, hook, line, and sinker and is immediately proclaimed upon anyone who ever has a doubt or a question. That is just not true, any more than one is born an adulterer or a pedophile. One may have proclivities or temptations in any number of ways (almost always from early experiences, according to the reading I've done) but that does not mean one has to act on it.

Not buying and I've really had enough of being forced into silence in the face of politically correct rhetoric. I'm not unkind to anyone and I keep my own business to myself. You won't find me marching in a parade or loudly proclaiming I sleep with a (fill in the gender) or attending support groups based on the person with whom I sleep. I only ask the same respect in kind.

Actually, it's more like saying your daughter's view <I>of her own love life</I> is the only legitimate one <I>for herself</I>.
What gives you the right to decide, or even to judge who she is allowed to be attracted to?

This is not my daughter. And again, you have entirely reframed what I said to fit your agenda.

What I said was that cutting off your parents because they are not in agreement with your daughter's choice of sexual partner is validating her viewpoint (gay is good) over the parent's view (traditional marriage is good). Why can't both co-exist? Why do the parents, whom I am assuming are elderly, based on the young adult age of the daughter, have to actively approve? Couldn't they agree to disagree on that, while still being grandchild and grandparent? Rational people could.

Why is it a "lifestyle" when it's about a homosexual and a "life" when it's a heterosexual?

It is a lifestyle no matter who is living it, I suppose. I never made such distinction here. I have one lifestyle; someone else has another.

<I></I>

<I>

</I>
<I>Any human being old enough to have a love life should have the right to live their life without it being judged as a "lifestyle" only because it's not the same as your own "lifestyle", isn't it?</I>
<I></I>

<i></i>

People do have the right to live their lifestyle unmolested (no pun intended) by others in word or deed to the extent that they are not harming anyone else. They absolutely do NOT have the right to insist on <I>approval</I> from others on lifestyle choices.

We've gone way beyond tolerance to now demanding approval. Don't believe me? Try advocating a traditional lifestyle in a liberal setting....

Young gay/lesbian who decide to go out of the closet and tell their parent's aren't rejecting their parents, Testing.
When it happens, it is their parents, not they, who chose to reject them away. It is their parents who put them in front of this unbearable ultimatum, to change who they are attracted to, which they cannot do anymore than you can do, or be rejected by their own parents.
So yeah, I agree, how is this right?

I don't know where you got all this, because I didn't discuss this at all. The only people being excised here were the parents of the other poster, because they do not support the granddaughter's - her daughter's -gay relationship. I think this is really extreme to excise parents because they don't approve of gay relationships (obviously, unless they got violent or something, of which no evidence was given).

But, since you brought up this new topic, I will say that this isn't what I see AT ALL and I know loads of teens and parents. Though there may be initial - and natural - hurt, grief, and resistance to a child's decision, most parents come around, rather quickly, rather than lose their child. Statistically, the parents who throw their kids out of the house and reject them for good are pretty few and far between.

Ok Wait, I am confused.
Do you want your daughter to be happy in her life?

Ha. Yes, you ARE confused. It is NOT MY DAUGHTER.
But yes, I DO want my daughter to be happy as well as to stay in her faith in God, since you ask.

If she cannot be happy with the opposite gender, no matter how much she tries, (no more than you could be happy with people of the same sex by the way), would you say that it's okay to deprive her of all of her sexuality then? That she should just not love someone else, who would love her back, just under the idea that they are of the same gender?

It is not MY place to "deprive" anyone of anything. Consequences will come, regardless of decisions one makes in life. We all have choices to make. And again - it is not my daughter we are discussing here.

But not over someone of the same sex, would you? Even if your parents would have pressured you to? Even if society told you it was "bad" otherwise? Then why assume that gay/lesbian have anymore ability than you to suddenly get that "emotional pull" toward straight sex?

You do realize the double standard here?

You know what. There IS no double standard here. Any one of us could form a relationship with any number of possible partners and live a decent life. If our exposure and experience was to people of the same gender, and we routinely saw them forming happy relationships, this would seem very natural and an attraction could easily happen. If our exposure and experience was to people of the opposite gender and we routinely saw them forming happy relationships, hugging and kissing, etc, then we could easily form that kind of relationship.

We have internal barriers to certain things because of the way we were formed and the way we are raised. But those can be overcome by environment.

So yeah...prison, say a life sentence. Any man or any woman here could possibly form some relationship in that scenario and it would be perfectly understandable, particularly in the absence of any teaching that such a thing is right or wrong. To deny this, to say that this could NEVER happen with some men or some women, is ridiculous, though I'm sure there are low-risk possibilities in the group as there are in any group.

How does falling in love with someone who loves you back could destroy a family, Testing? Why do we even judge who someone love? For god sake's, why would it even be of any one else's business?

Here, I was talking about the teacher who jilted his wife and kids for the teen girl in his school. Instead of relying on his internal knowledge that this was wrong, he went for it. That's wrong and it does destroy a family. His family. His wife, whom he vowed to love and cherish as long as they both shall live.

 

[cybele]

You seem very concearned about my relationship with my parents, and hou are right, a rational person does not cut out family unless thrre is good reason, so did it ever occur to you that there might have been a good reason? Or did you just jump to the conclusion that I am 100% irrational? Lets put it this way, the 'saga' began with my mother picking up my oldest two, then aged 14 and 12, from school, teling the school, and them, that their parents and baby brother were in a car accident and they needed to be at the hospital (I should now add that they had a theorh at this point that Azriel was also gay, because he asked to have cello lessons, if they actually spoke to him, im sure he would have introduced them to tthe band Apocalyptica) drove them out to a Catholic retreat (we are not Catholic, they are, we are not) for troubled teens. I found out when my children did not come home that afternoon, so I called the school. There wee many in between events, but it ended with an assault charge ony dad for breaking my husband's arm. So you tell me why I should support them?

Why is pedophillia so often brought up in these conversations? Thats an entirely different kettle of fish, a healthy homosexual relationship is exactly the same as a healthy heterosexual relationship, both psrties consenting and equal. Pedophillia is n adult taking advantage of a child who does not have the capacity to consent.

 

[Testing]

cybele: You seem very concearned about my relationship with my parents, and hou are right, a rational person does not cut out family unless thrre is good reason, so did it ever occur to you that there might have been a good reason?

I was not asking. I was simply speaking to the principle of the matter, whereas you expressed it as if you were required to cut out your parents because they did not approve of your daughter's choices.

If you had good reason, then you did, and fine. But one can still support and love people who are violating our beliefs. That is what I was expressing.

Or did you just jump to the conclusion that I am 100% irrational?

No.

Lets put it this way, the 'saga' began with my mother picking up my oldest two, then aged 14 and 12, from school, teling the school, and them, that their parents and baby brother were in a car accident and they needed to be at the hospital (I should now add that they had a theorh at this point that Azriel was also gay, because he asked to have cello lessons, if they actually spoke to him, im sure he would have introduced them to tthe band Apocalyptica) drove them out to a Catholic retreat (we are not Catholic, they are, we are not) for troubled teens. I found out when my children did not come home that afternoon, so I called the school. There wee many in between events, but it ended with an assault charge ony dad for breaking my husband's arm. So you tell me why I should support them?

I cannot even follow this and find the bolded perplexing. But I take your word for it that there were problems at the time that you felt could not be overcome.

Just remember, they will be gone before you know it. Ask me how I know. Have no regrets about what you did or did not do.

Why is pedophillia so often brought up in these conversations? Thats an entirely different kettle of fish, a healthy homosexual relationship is exactly the same as a healthy heterosexual relationship, both psrties consenting and equal. Pedophillia is n adult taking advantage of a child who does not have the capacity to consent.

No, one relationship is not EXACTLY like the other. It has a whole set of problems that the other does not have.

And any sort of sexual involvement outside monogamous traditional marriage is undesirable - to dinosaurs like me who dislike disease and serial partnerships and the hurt they cause, whether you are perpetrating it on someone else (much worse) or simply doing it consensually. Go ahead and laugh. People do it but it isn't God's plan for them or the best way to go, for a variety of reasons.