I am at a loss and need help...
- Thread starter Cowart69
- Start date
Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow......What? This is a message board...by the limited knowledge I have of you you are a egotistical know it all, good for nothing, worthless posting person who I am not positive is here for nothing more then to cause arguements. What truth? do you know how stupid that sounds? You cant have truth when you dont have all the facts you know that right?
You flipped out on a child or wife - Oh yeah...you are really paying attention to what is being posted. But then.....you have "the truth"
I am not ASKING for someone to agree with me...I am asking for a suggestion on where to go from here....
I hope she finds someone who understands what she goes through and carees for her....OH YEAH....I DONT CARE ABOUT MY KID....you wrote that just to pi@# me off right......IF I DID NOT CARE I WOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR ADVICE. I would just let her fail...I wouldn't spend countless hours after working all day...going to school all night....come home and help someone with their homework.
You are a total tool.....
You flipped out on a child or wife - Oh yeah...you are really paying attention to what is being posted. But then.....you have "the truth"
I am not ASKING for someone to agree with me...I am asking for a suggestion on where to go from here....
I hope she finds someone who understands what she goes through and carees for her....OH YEAH....I DONT CARE ABOUT MY KID....you wrote that just to pi@# me off right......IF I DID NOT CARE I WOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR ADVICE. I would just let her fail...I wouldn't spend countless hours after working all day...going to school all night....come home and help someone with their homework.
You are a total tool.....
Someone who cares as far as a teacher or principal. Wow....name calling is so mature. I can see your aggression. Not egotistical, not a know it all but I do know children. I'm not argueing or getting mad. You are. I just think you are out of control and should calm down and focus on help for your daughter. Things don't get this bad over night with a child. I gave advice, MY opinion. If you don't like it then let it go. If it hits a spot for ya then..........well........nothing I can do. A tool....lmao Do you even know what that means?
Whatever......go back and read how you presented that "I hope she finds someone that cares" and you can see exactly what that insinuated.
You may THINK you know kids but you certainly dont know how to relate to adults. You have been talking down to me this whole thread and you know it.
You gave your opinion....fine...move on.
You may THINK you know kids but you certainly dont know how to relate to adults. You have been talking down to me this whole thread and you know it.
You gave your opinion....fine...move on.
I feel terrible that a request for suggestions turned so ugly. I try to keep in mind that opinions are like a**holes everyones got one. I felt like the tone of your posts. Musicmom, was attacking and hurtful. But then again that is only my opinion.
Wow. This sure didn't turn out the way you were hoping to. I truly hope you can manage to work this out with your wife and daughter.Cowart69 said:
my advice: slow down, take a breath, go back to basics.
she's 12 right? I don't care how ambitious you are as a parent: 12 is still too young to be able to throw your life away.
Is it really THAT bad? Sure, it's time to try to help her, but it's not time to give up on her.
Is there something even more basic than the right disciplinary approach??
Is she simply in the wrong class? Too high, too low? You're out 16 hours a day? Does she need more time with Dad, justing going for walks and talking about stuff?
Is there some new boy in her life? Is there some new boy NOT in her life?
The basics are always true: all you need is love. Successful people have healthy self-esteem, which comes from good home life. There's plenty of time to turn this problem around.
she's 12 right? I don't care how ambitious you are as a parent: 12 is still too young to be able to throw your life away.
Is it really THAT bad? Sure, it's time to try to help her, but it's not time to give up on her.
Is there something even more basic than the right disciplinary approach??
Is she simply in the wrong class? Too high, too low? You're out 16 hours a day? Does she need more time with Dad, justing going for walks and talking about stuff?
Is there some new boy in her life? Is there some new boy NOT in her life?
The basics are always true: all you need is love. Successful people have healthy self-esteem, which comes from good home life. There's plenty of time to turn this problem around.
Wow! This has gotten pretty heated. The man came to this forum for HELP and yet most everyone here has an opinion about how he's handling himself rather than giving suggestions for new things to try FOR HIS DAUGHTER.
Dear Sir,
As a single mother, I can totally relate to your frustrations. I have 3 children - all in different grades varying from pre-k to 4th. All of their attitudes and perspectives and mannerisms are ALL DIFFERENT. I realize your child is older than my oldest one (which by the way is 9; about to be 10) and I too am guilty of "yelling". You are right... when the polite, but firm discussion is taken place and he/she says she'll change something, but doesn't... I mean, how many times do you sit down and have the same discussion in the same tone of voice when you KNOW it's not working. I don't want to spank my children either and I go to every other length before doing so. No, it's not nice to yell at one another, but we both know that after making it nice, raising of the voice and becoming more firm is a necessary step to reinforce the importance of the issue. Should you yell at her ALL THE TIME? Of course not! That will eventually lead to total destruction. I understand you feeling badly about yelling at her... but truth be known, we ALL yell at one point or another and most of us feel badly for it, but don't beat yourself up about it, just try to maintain your authority without going overboard. As for being mad or agitated with your wife, I think it's completely understandable. You aren't on the same team if one of you is "okay" with the situation while the other isn't.
As for possible solutions, I did agree with 1dayatatime... arrange a parent teacher conference WITH THE PRINCIPLE. Inform the principle that you have made numerous attempts to work with the teachers during the past few months in an effort to help your daughter and to stay informed of what's going on with her. Not that you should have to prove yourself to anyone there, but the school does need to know that you are there trying to help your daughter rather than just letting her do whatever she wants/needs to do. If she's been lying to you, you can pretty much guarantee that she's been lying to them as well. Your daughter needs to know that she's not in control here and on a dead end road if she continues this way. She needs to know that noone is going to allow her to fail - if they can help it. Meaning, the teachers, the principle, the parents all need to be on the same team to show her she's not in charge. Ask the school about their ISS program, if they have one. That's "In School Suspension". My district has a specific place for this that isn't far at all from the school. When assigned to ISS, they are required to be in that class at a certain time (which is generally BEFORE regular classes start), they eat lunch in that classroom, there is no talking allowed, no playing, no interacting of ANY kind with ANY ONE during the day... they work on their assignments, the teacher assigned to ISS will check it over to make sure it's done, and the teacher assigned gets the assignment back to their normal teacher for grading. It's worth checking in to.
My father was the same way... the rules were very simple actually. Make all passing grades (preferrably A/B honor roll) and stay out of trouble. Fail a class and begin tutoring until the next report card comes out and shows a passing grade. If passing, tutoring can be dropped, if failed again, tutoring maintains. Fail a grade level, go to summer school instead of hanging out with friends. Fail summer school, repeat the grade level and miss out on graduating with my friends. I too was in sports, so all these things weren't issues for me. I maintained an a/b average all of my years of school. Softball was my life and I wasn't about to jeopardize that. Is there something extra curricular that your daughter is passionate about that perhaps you could use as some type of leverage here?
Dear Sir,
As a single mother, I can totally relate to your frustrations. I have 3 children - all in different grades varying from pre-k to 4th. All of their attitudes and perspectives and mannerisms are ALL DIFFERENT. I realize your child is older than my oldest one (which by the way is 9; about to be 10) and I too am guilty of "yelling". You are right... when the polite, but firm discussion is taken place and he/she says she'll change something, but doesn't... I mean, how many times do you sit down and have the same discussion in the same tone of voice when you KNOW it's not working. I don't want to spank my children either and I go to every other length before doing so. No, it's not nice to yell at one another, but we both know that after making it nice, raising of the voice and becoming more firm is a necessary step to reinforce the importance of the issue. Should you yell at her ALL THE TIME? Of course not! That will eventually lead to total destruction. I understand you feeling badly about yelling at her... but truth be known, we ALL yell at one point or another and most of us feel badly for it, but don't beat yourself up about it, just try to maintain your authority without going overboard. As for being mad or agitated with your wife, I think it's completely understandable. You aren't on the same team if one of you is "okay" with the situation while the other isn't.
As for possible solutions, I did agree with 1dayatatime... arrange a parent teacher conference WITH THE PRINCIPLE. Inform the principle that you have made numerous attempts to work with the teachers during the past few months in an effort to help your daughter and to stay informed of what's going on with her. Not that you should have to prove yourself to anyone there, but the school does need to know that you are there trying to help your daughter rather than just letting her do whatever she wants/needs to do. If she's been lying to you, you can pretty much guarantee that she's been lying to them as well. Your daughter needs to know that she's not in control here and on a dead end road if she continues this way. She needs to know that noone is going to allow her to fail - if they can help it. Meaning, the teachers, the principle, the parents all need to be on the same team to show her she's not in charge. Ask the school about their ISS program, if they have one. That's "In School Suspension". My district has a specific place for this that isn't far at all from the school. When assigned to ISS, they are required to be in that class at a certain time (which is generally BEFORE regular classes start), they eat lunch in that classroom, there is no talking allowed, no playing, no interacting of ANY kind with ANY ONE during the day... they work on their assignments, the teacher assigned to ISS will check it over to make sure it's done, and the teacher assigned gets the assignment back to their normal teacher for grading. It's worth checking in to.
My father was the same way... the rules were very simple actually. Make all passing grades (preferrably A/B honor roll) and stay out of trouble. Fail a class and begin tutoring until the next report card comes out and shows a passing grade. If passing, tutoring can be dropped, if failed again, tutoring maintains. Fail a grade level, go to summer school instead of hanging out with friends. Fail summer school, repeat the grade level and miss out on graduating with my friends. I too was in sports, so all these things weren't issues for me. I maintained an a/b average all of my years of school. Softball was my life and I wasn't about to jeopardize that. Is there something extra curricular that your daughter is passionate about that perhaps you could use as some type of leverage here?
The fact that you are seeking a solution makes you a great father.Cowart69 said:
Let me give you a very practical suggestion- control who she spends time with. If she associates with motivated friends, she will want to do well in school. Puberty is a rough time and adolescents cling to their peers to make sense of it all. I think you will find that her closest friends are probably not the brightest kids- upgrade them and the problem will sort itself out. Also, put her in activities with better peers-sign her up for sports, classes, etc... so she does not have time to IM and text her friends in her spare time. We keep our kids days full and I am trying hard to remind my oldest daughter (11 1/2) to have play dates with some of her friends that are more motivated instead of just the rebels.
In my opinion, she is exhibiting typical 12 year old female behavior, sigh. It is also very common for children who start middle school to feel overwhelmed and out of place. Middle school seems to be a difficult transition for most kids. I feel for you. I have never found schools to be anywhere near as supportive as you need when a daughter goes through this. Much of what happens at this age is hormone and boy-related and it can be incredibly destructive. It is also very long-lasting and can have more serious consequences in high school, so dealing with it now is key.. However, all is not lost because even though her peers are important to her, a relationship with her father is more important (not that you could tell right now, but studies show this to be a fact).
My suggestion is that you make a deal with her. Tell her that every Sunday (or pick a day) you will take her out for one-on-one day time with Dad. It can be for dinner, a movie, miniature golf, but some special time. Tell her this will be a "reward" for a week's worth of homework and assignments done and turned in on time. I would take her out spontaneously the first time. Ask her if she enjoys spending this special time with you and then tell her there is a way she could earn more of this time by doing better in school.
Oh and don't keep ragging on your wife. I'm sure that if she had it in her to change this, she would (what parent does not want his/her child to do well?), so perhaps you are the better person to handle this particular family crisis.
My suggestion is that you make a deal with her. Tell her that every Sunday (or pick a day) you will take her out for one-on-one day time with Dad. It can be for dinner, a movie, miniature golf, but some special time. Tell her this will be a "reward" for a week's worth of homework and assignments done and turned in on time. I would take her out spontaneously the first time. Ask her if she enjoys spending this special time with you and then tell her there is a way she could earn more of this time by doing better in school.
Oh and don't keep ragging on your wife. I'm sure that if she had it in her to change this, she would (what parent does not want his/her child to do well?), so perhaps you are the better person to handle this particular family crisis.
ehb, great stuff.
i would change it though that it shouldn't be as a 'reward' but as a given. You make the point that father-daughter time is the important thing here, not putting pressure on the daughter to conform.
it sounds like the time for unconditional love, not conditional.
i would change it though that it shouldn't be as a 'reward' but as a given. You make the point that father-daughter time is the important thing here, not putting pressure on the daughter to conform.
it sounds like the time for unconditional love, not conditional.
I agree with your concept here, but I still think going out should be the reward. If the assignments and homework are not done, then the time that would be spent going out with Dad should be spent catching up the work with Dad supervising. It's still Dad time, just not as rewarding and it gets the message across that free time is the reward after the essential work is done. This is a life lesson. Your boss won't give you a full day's paycheck if you don't put in a full day's work. In fact, he might even fire you. A child shouldn't get a paycheck (reward) unless his/her work is done. We owe it to our children to teach them how the world works, not how we would like it to work.evilbrent said:
No, it's much, much more special to that. Fathers have much that they can teach their daughters about life and love. Daughters often look to their fathers for guidance and for grounding.
I want to start doing this kind of thing with my kids - but I don't want it to be seen as a reward, just a natural part of us loving each other.
I think something like a joint project would meet the purposes of relationship building without muddying the waters with authoritarian issues of punishment and reward: I mean, doing my homework while my dad sits at the table and watches me do it? That's not together-time.
When my kids are older I'd love be able to do something like set aside one saturday a month each where I take one of the kids and spend the day with them, doing what they want to do - and my wife would obviously have the other kid so no-one would miss out.
I think a good project would be build something - a table or a go-kart - together, or maybe get two copies of the same book and sit down to read the chapters at the same time...
Taking daughter out to movie vs making her do her homework sounds a lot like a punishment/praise cycle that might have contributed to the girl's low self-esteem in the first place...
I think something like a joint project would meet the purposes of relationship building without muddying the waters with authoritarian issues of punishment and reward: I mean, doing my homework while my dad sits at the table and watches me do it? That's not together-time.
When my kids are older I'd love be able to do something like set aside one saturday a month each where I take one of the kids and spend the day with them, doing what they want to do - and my wife would obviously have the other kid so no-one would miss out.
I think a good project would be build something - a table or a go-kart - together, or maybe get two copies of the same book and sit down to read the chapters at the same time...
Taking daughter out to movie vs making her do her homework sounds a lot like a punishment/praise cycle that might have contributed to the girl's low self-esteem in the first place...
What I guess I'm trying to say is that this level of parental availabilty needs to be completely unconditional. If you have to jump through hoops (random, confusing, bewildering hoops) to get access to your dad then you might begin to think that your dad cares more about how well you're performing than he does about you.
I would hope that a parent's favorite phrase should be "Put your books away, we're going to the park" - otherwise what's the POINT of homework?
I would hope that a parent's favorite phrase should be "Put your books away, we're going to the park" - otherwise what's the POINT of homework?
I'm not disagreeing with you Brent, only to say that things are a little different when your children have to meet goals in order to succeed in school. Your approach, while admirable, may be a tad idealistic. I say this even as a parent who celebrates an "unbirthday" that corresponds with each child's birthday as it occurs in the month as a time of one-on-one time with them, yes even the adult children. There is no question having this time is valuable to a child. There is also no greater frustration for a parent than when a capable and functioning child is not meeting his/her school assignment goals.
I still don't see what is manipulative about saying "I have this additional time I would love to spend with you, it's up to you how we spend it, though." I see it as empowering the child to make good choices. I would agree with you IF this was the child's ONLY option for Dad time. (I did not get that impression from the poster, but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong. He sounds involved and concerned to me.) I'm suggesting the adding of ADDITIONAL Dad time here.
I still don't see what is manipulative about saying "I have this additional time I would love to spend with you, it's up to you how we spend it, though." I see it as empowering the child to make good choices. I would agree with you IF this was the child's ONLY option for Dad time. (I did not get that impression from the poster, but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong. He sounds involved and concerned to me.) I'm suggesting the adding of ADDITIONAL Dad time here.