Proportioning of Responsibilities between Working Husband and Stay-at-Home Mom...

[mom2many]

Gosh I was bitchy! Chalk it up to a busy day and pms....I do stand behind some of what I said, just remove my snottyness...

The reason I think I got snotty is because regardless of your wife's lack of motivation you are allowing the house to also be that way. My husband does jack around the house which is usually how I want it, but even he will wash a dish if things are getting out of control. Not cause he wants to but because it is house and family also...

 

[Trina]

After thinking about this more, I would like to add...

I have a magnet hanging on my frig that says,
" Nobody notices what I do - until I don't do it!"
How very true! I plug along daily and make sure the house is clean and everything is taken care of. Then if I happen to have an off day for whatever reason or forget something or fall behind (God forbid!) I hear about it. Being a SAHM is a thankless job, I KNOW that, but I hate being taken for granted. No, I don't expect my family to kiss my butt, but a little appreciation goes a long way. Also, an understanding that Mom is human and needs breaks, too!

My husband works A LOT of hours, which means I work A LOT of hours keeping the home fires burning, so to speak. Some have recommended your wife get a hobby or go back to school or work. From my experience, I couldn't go back to school or work even if I wanted to. WHO would tend to the house and kids? Who would taxi them to/from all their activities?

Do you and your wife ever get much "couple time"? I don't necessarily mean sex, but one on one time to bond and connect. (Which often leads to love making! ) The reason I'm bringing this up is because I know if my husband gets tied up with work and WE are not able to have "couple time" for a long stretch I resent his long working hours and begin to feel lonely, depressed and unappreciated. This snow balls into not caring so much about chores, etc.. Of course this adds to his frustrations and things snow ball. It takes EFFORT from both partners to make sure this doesn't happen. Show appreciation to each other, MAKE time to care and love each other. Little things mean a lot.

 

[Trina]

The reason I think I got snotty is because regardless of your wife's lack of motivation you are allowing the house to also be that way. My husband does jack around the house which is usually how I want it, but even he will wash a dish if things are getting out of control. Not cause he wants to but because it is house and family also...

Exactly!

 

[beatnik]

Hi.

I just want to weigh in and defend Bob a bit.

I'm a part-time SAHM, part-time MA student, and my husband is a full-time nursing student and also works part-time. We still divide our housework fairly evenly (but this is out of habit more than anything else -- we've routinely divided housework down the middle since day 1). We've gone through various periods in our 6 year marriage where we've had to ebb and flow a bit with whose doing more and re-dividing our responsibilities based off our work/study/and volunteer commitments. Most often the important thing is that these responsibilities are deciding on mutually.

I always believe that SAH-parents should expect some help in maintaining the house from their working spouses... however, your full-time work on your PhD changes that scenario significantly. Graduate qualifications require EXTENSIVE time and mental energy, and I think your depiction of your day (work, enjoy time with kids/ dinner, PhD work until early morning hours) doesn't realistically leave room in your day to contribute substantially to the housework. You've made it clear that things would be different if you WEREN'T in the process of completing a PhD (IE, you'd expect to pitch in more around the house) but given your current work/study load, AND the fact you and your wife mutually came to an agreement about her handling things while you completed your study, I think you have a lot of justifiable resentment. Plus, her issues with not respecting the agreed budget are marital stressors outside of the SAHM issue.

I can see others have had some (perhaps knee-jerk) reactions to your stance... I think people are weary about SAHM/SAHD's having to take on the 24/7 job while their spouse relaxes after an 8-5 employment, but that is clearly NOT the situation you are in. Graduate study is a costly commitment (even with a scholarship, someone is fronting the money under the expectation you will complete your degree and add knowledge to a field -- to NOT complete when you've received a scholarship is to spit in the face of that opportunity) and if your wife agreed to manage the house reasonably well while watching the kids so that you could further your education (which ultimately benefits everyone) then I think you have a lot of reason for concern.

Additionally, it sounds like you and your wife have different expectations on general house cleanliness and decisions pertaining the the kids (total tv time in a day, diet, etc.). It sounds to me like you're not upset the house isn't spotless when you get home... you are clearly stressed by what you feel is an unacceptable living environment.

I would suggest perhaps talking to a third party with your wife -- IE, a counselor or trusted (but unbiased) family friend before you think seriously about leaving the marriage. People are very capable of change and it sounds like if you weren't harboring so much resentment, you'd feel more positively about your wife an your marriage. Often a third party can help your wife understand your position (without it being directly from you) and vise versa.

I do sympathize with your wife... I know a few SAHM's who get into a "funk" and don't seem to snap themselves out of it (much to the detriment of their homes and their kids TV limitations...). It is a challenging job and I don't want to imply otherwise. But it sounds like your wife's lack of motivation could also be a bit of a loss of (non-mom) identity. Perhaps seeing a counselor could help her reinvigorate some personal goals for herself (volunteerism, work, etc) and help her value the importance of a tidy home (for the kids sake, long term), etc.

I think what's clear is that you agreed to a divide of responsibilities you both felt was equal while you are studying and for whatever reason, it's not working out. Expecting your wife to fulfill her end of the agreement while you're working and studying full time does not make you a chauvanist who lives in the 1920's. But I'd make sure you're doing everything possible to remedy the situation before you think about leaving the marriage (counseling, calm talks, etc).

 

[MomoJA]

I know you probably feel like you are being attacked and that we don't really understand how bad it is. I'm sure you are justified in much of what you feel and say, but I don't think you have really tried to see things from her perspective.

You mention that you don't have a social life. The social life of a married couple is a shared thing for the most part, or at least it should be. Therefore, if you don't have a social life, neither does she. You at least get to leave one job and go somewhere else. Her job is 24/7. She is never off.

I know you think that housework isn't challenging, and I think we can all see your point, but housework IS challenging simply because it is NEVER done. It is really just a treadmill, and while that may not be mentally challenging, that also means it is not rewarding. You are getting your PhD because you want a job that challenges you. Why? Because it is more rewarding. Could you do what you expect her to do? Could you do a job that is so unchallenging?

You mention that you make time to play with your girls even though you work such long hours and have so much else on your plate. I don't really see it as making time so much as what you are probably looking forward to most. You say you do nothing but work and study, so surely those minutes you spend playing with your girls must be your relaxation.

You mention that you have a great relationship with your children. That's great, and as a girl with a girl of my own, I think it is really important for your girls to have a good relationship with their dad. But really, you have the easy part. You get to play with them. Do you have to bath them and wash their hair when they hate water on their heads? Do you have to make them stop playing and clean their rooms? Do you have to dress them when they want to run around in their PJs? Do you have to make them brush their teeth and send them to bed when they want to stay up? Etc?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I don't mean to. But I think I can see her perspective as well. My situation was different. Without going into too much detail, I married outside of my culture and thought I was willing to do all the housework, child-rearing, cooking, shopping, budgeting, etc., even though I was also the bigger bread winner, worked 60 hours a week outside the home and another 10 to 20 at home (on my outside job) in the evenings and weekends. That was what I had committed to. And I would have continued doing so, but what was the point? My husband never spent any time with us as a family. We weren't a family.

Chances are your wife is wondering what she signed up for and why she is in this. She probably wants to make things work as well, but she is probably as unhappy as you are because she wonders if this is all there will ever be. It sounds like there is no intimacy between you (I'm not talking about sex) and I'm sure she feels your resentment and disappointment in her. She probably doesn't see the point in slaving to make the happy home that if it were truly happy should include something in it for her. Again, without meaning to sound harsh, I have to ask, what's in it for her?

I know that you can't say everything in a few paragraphs, and I'm sure there probably is more intimacy that what your post implies, but if I were in your wife's shoes, even if things were as rosy as they could possibly be under the circumstances with my husband working outside the home 80 hours a week and then closeting himself away with his studies when he came home, letting me go to bed alone (again, I don't care about the sex, just the company), I think I'd be pretty depressed and would have a hard time making myself clean dishes mop floors that were just going to need cleaning a mopping again in a few hours which I had to spend cooking and ironing clothes, and cleaning up after toddlers, and bathing children from whom, though I loved them dearly, I really needed a break from now and then.

 

[Dadu2004]

Wow, don't think I've ever seen responses this long. Too much for me to read..... (Backs out of thread)

 

[MomoJA]

" Nobody notices what I do - until I don't do it!"

When I was a nanny, and cleaning house was not really part of what I was hired to do, but I did it anyway, I learned to leave one cleaning product out on the counter. If I didn't do that, the cleaning went unnoticed. But when I did, I got a thank you.

 

[fleur007]

Last week I cleaned my house from top to bottom, spent the ENTIRE day (and a lil bit of the next) doing it. When my son woke up the next morning it took him less then an hour to make it look like I had done nothing at all. That is what it is like every day, and most days I have a very hard time mustering up the motivation to just keep going. The pure endless monotony of it all has made me think very long and hard about getting into my car and driving into the sunset. It sounds like this is the problem your wife has, she is simply unhappy in her life. That is probably also the reason she spends so much time over at her family's, because nothing but mindless chores awaite her at home. Being a SAHM is emotionally draining, expecially when you feel like your expected to be a housework robot that runs 24 hrs a day.

Please don't get me wrong because im no trying to take her side because I do completly agree with you, its not fair that you work so hard and have to come home to a dirty house. But its fair to say that your wife most likly resents you for working so hard just as much as you resent her for not.

I know that alot a ppl have been suggesting that you either roll up your sleeves and dive into the house work with her or you shell out the extra cash to pay for someone else to do her job but that just plain sounds unfair to you. So I suggest that you do for your wife what my husband does for me.

Make her feel like (wife's name here) again and not just (child's name here)'s and (child's name here)'s mom. Before you disappear into your study for the night take 1 min to give her a hug, a real hug (when was the last time ya'll did that). Take a 10 min break before she goes to bed at night and tell each other about your day or at the very least have her tell you about her's. Look her in the eyes and tell her "I love you". Saying it out loud will do wonders towards melting some of that resentment. Drop your girls off at their grandmothers for an afternoon that you have off and take your wife out on a date. It doesn't matter what ya'll do as long as you do it together. Put up a calendar with your graducation date circled to reminder yourself and your wife that there is a light at the end of this tunnel.

How old are your girls? Can they talk? If so then they are old enough to have some sort of chore, at the very least they are old enough to pick up there own toys. We didn't have a dishwasher growing up because my mother said that she made 3. I was washing the dishes at the age of 5 and I had to pick up after myself as far back as I can remember. Chores will teach your girls responsiblity and will go along way towards breaking that lazyness family trait. Not to mention take some of the stress off of your wife, and make you feel a lil bit better about the state of the house. If your girls are still toodlers or babies then your wife will just have to tuff it out for a lil while longer.

It sounds like your wife is just no good with money, so try giving her an allowance. Give her just enough to cover day to day expences, the bills at that time of the month, and a lil extra for whatever. If she doesn't like that suggest she get a part time job to cover the lil extras she just can't live without. But whatever you do make sure you stress in a nice way the bad position the over spending is putting your family in.

I really think that you shouldn't give up on your marriage just yet, things are hard on both of you and you both just need lil reminders on how much you really love each other. I really think that if you bring that love back to your day to day lives things will really improve for the both of you.
Good luck and sorry this was so long.

 

[fleur007]

To summarize everthing I said
You and your wife need to show each other more love, women are emotionally driven creaters and if their emotionally drained its very easy for them to fall into depressions or just lose the will to do anything. and if your kids are old enough to pitch in around the house then they should. Parents work hard for their kids so kids should work hard for their parents.

 

[stjohnjulie]

Wow! So much has been said already. I see that you haven't weighed in in a bit, but I hope you are still reading and following this thread that you started. Something that struck me is you saying that you regretted posting.... Just want to say that if you came here to get people to back you 100% without giving you any feedback, well....that isn't going to happen. There are all kinds of people who come to this forum with lots of different backgrounds and life experiences. It's one of the very best things about this forum. You get lots of different points of view. If you want a cheer leading squad, um, you might have to look around a bit more.

After stewing on this for a bit, I think that the thing I focused on the most is what singledad has already expressed. I get the feeling from your original post that
<I>you are the boss and your wife is the employee and she didn't pass her performance review and she is about to be fired

</I>I just get the feeling that maybe a big part of the problem is that your relationship is failing and it is causing the 'household' stuff to fail as well. Perhaps if you put a little more energy into your relationship then your wife will feel like she's part of the team again. Does that make sense? I was in a relationship where I felt more like an employee instead of a partner and it had devastating effects on me, on him, and on our son. I am now married to a man that is my PARTNER. There is no boss here. We both do what we can do and if we really really want something done we either ask the other to do it or do it ourselves.

Have to admit, my house looks like a bomb went off in it right now. But I know that we will get it straightened out and most importantly, I know my husband loves me just the same and I love him just the same.

 

[kathywhite]

My wife should do the dishes
She should pull her weight
She needs to do more around the house
Things should be fair between us

Sounds like the reality is that she doesn't. And so you get to be right, she gets to be wrong and all that the problem is, is that your expectations are different from the reality.

Check out a great book "I need your love, Is It True " by Byron Katie.

And maybe you come to love and accept the way your wife is and stay with her, and maybe you come to love and accept the way your wife is and leave. It's not about your wife...it's about you.

 

[IADad]

Okay, i read the OP, but not any of the responses or any followups you hmay have posted.

A couple of things struck me. It seems that you're unhappy that your wife hasn't changed into the woman you thought you could make her into...sounds like a lot of unhappy wife stories...

Second, "a chance of reconciling" it seems like you've already split from her before the two of you split.

Third, you've been able to afford some creature comforts. Perhaps the only way to balance your financial comfort level with her lack of discipline is i suggest, shell out a little cash for somebody to clean the house, the have a talk with her about having reduced her responsibilities to now can she focus on fixing meals and saving some travel/dining out cash? You'll probably have to take on the budget, it seems out of her realm.

You say you don't feel your extraordinary effort are appreciated. That may be. Have you made efforts to appreciate the times she has tried? It seems you have a better handle on how to run the household than she does, you may have to motivate her, congratulate and appreciate when she does try. consider it an investment for the long run.

Finding love with her again, is probably going to have to wait until the stress level lowers, when you're done with the phd, when you've stabilized home-life. Do you remember why you fell in love to begin with?

If you don't think you can do the weekend visits, then you need to stabilize things for now, and work for a fix when things are more settled. Otherwise I forsee you with a large child support and alimony bill and missing your kids a lot.

 

[sbattisti]

This one must set the record for the most long posts. Bob has certainly hit an interesting topic! Obviously, many great comments already.

To me, this whole situation is about the relationship. All of the housekeeping stuff is the symptom. I'm not sure if I missed it in there, but the first thing I thought when I read this was:

<I>What does your wife think is wrong with your relationship?</I>

I think it would be very illuminating to hear what she would say. I know that when I was in marriage counseling, the biggest shock for me was how the two of us could have such <I>completely </I>different feelings about what was wrong with our relationship. You've made it clear what your concerns are and where you think the problems lie. If a third party were to ask you to list the top five things that are wrong with your relationship, what would you choose? What would your wife choose?

There's no way any of us can truly understand what you are like from a few posts, but honestly, you come across as judgmental and as the sort of person who is always has to be right. In fact, you go out of your way to belittle her entire family, with perhaps the exception of her father, who gets damned with the faint praise of being a "hard-working individual." Your goal from before the wedding was to hope she would learn from your work ethic. I can only imagine how that makes her feel, herself included! How could she possibly feel good about herself when she probably has been under the gun to meet your expectations from day one? (Note: This is where most people would get their backs up and reply with the reasons what I said is false. I don't need for you to do that. Just remember that perception is reality, and the fact that people perceive you that way probably means that there is either at least SOME truth to it, or something about the way you present yourself makes it come across that way.)

Like a lot of guys, your approach is EXTREMELY logical. "I did X and therefore she should do Y." It's factual, and therefore, to you, your position seems unassailable. The problem is, logic just doesn't work in relationships sometimes, especially for the fairer sex, and this certainly seems to be one of those cases. A perfect example: You can think "Her brothers are underachievers who wait around for fortune to shine on them and her mother has zero ambition and yet complains about how little money she makes." Empirically, you may even be <I>right </I>about that. When pressed, your wife may even agree about that. But, that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt her to have you <I>say </I>it! If you add up things like this over years and years, it's quite possibly a large part of why SHE is falling out of love with YOU, which in turn would go a long way to demotivating her from doing anything around the house.

You've mentioned several cases where your wife agrees with you about the problems. I'm not sure you can trust that. It certainly sounds likely that you guys have a dominant/passive relationship, and in cases like that, the passive person will often agree to <I>anything</I>, either to escape criticism or to avoid conflict. I know; I was a serious conflict avoider. Again, who knows if that's the case for you.

I suspect that you realize that you haven't been keeping up your end of the relationship and that you understand that you're at least partially responsible for the state of things with your wife. I can tell, because you spend a HUGE amount of time in your posts trying to excuse your behavior. Your excuses are good ones - your work, your school, and so on. It certainly isn't as if you are off doing drugs and partying and wondering why the house isn't clean. But again, relationships aren't about logic. If your wife is sad, lonely, and unhappy, and thinking "This isn't what I wanted from a marriage," then it frankly wouldn't matter if you were out curing cancer or solving world peace.

I do wish you luck. I would urge you to get into counseling ASAP. I can't see this problem magically resolving on its own. (And please don't say you don't have time for it, despite your busy schedule, or you might as well just start drawing up the divorce papers.) I'd LOVE for your wife to come on here and tell HER side of the story, which I imagine would be vastly different than yours. (They always are; not just in your case!)

Good luck!

~S

 

[Pwningbear]

I am a SAHM as well. I have one child but I babysit 2 other kids 6 days a week from 8am until midnight, and I have 2 dogs to care for. My hubs always prefers me to stay at home and he recently went back to school and quit his job. That being said-Between watching the kids, housework,etc,I still have me time. Here is a few ideas I am not sure if others suggested or not-
Make up a grocery list for her(Maybe it will educate her on what YOU want your family to eat) Designate ONE day out of the week as order out night, give her an allowance. If she runs out of money, then its on her. Tell her the house don't have to be perfect and that you understand she wants "me" time, but you do want most of the housework done. Explain to her she can throw a load of laundry in on her way out of the door if she goes somewhere, or takes the kids out to play. Then when she comes in, throw that load in the dryer. As for the dishes, if you have a dishwasher, have her load up the dishes and when you come home just hit the start button, or have her do so before she goes to bed. I personally have to do them by hand. My "me" time is when my kid goes to bed, when the hubs is doing his homework.Don't expect her to change immediately. Maybe she will start small, then when you notice the progress, give her a pat on the shoulder. If you can fit in counciling, Like someone else suggested, that would be great as well. If you can find one day a week where you are free-get a sitter for a few hours and take your wife out on a "date". Maybe that will also help her out by making her feel loved. I know what it is like to have a husband always busy (He went from being a soldier to working 60hours a week at a factory), just knowing that your spouse can find time for you is awesome. I hope some of my advice has helped you.

 

[lovemykids]

Two things come to mind......marriage counseling and could she be dealing with some depression. I think getting the issues out in the open with an objective 3rd party could help. The longer this festers, the more resentment there will be. Maybe it's not really depression, but counseling could help figure out the lack of motivation.
I don't know if your children are in school yet, but I found that keeping up with the house got worse after they got in school. Being at home, the school was always looking for a volunteer for this and that.....pretty soon I was chairing this or that. (of course I needed to learn to say no). Everyone says they can't wait for the kids to get in school so they have more time.....it seemed just the opposite for me.
Good luck......I think the counseling would be a good first step.

 

[sbattisti]

While depression may very well be in the mix here, I'm feel very cautious about suggesting the OP approach his wife about that. Already, I get a very strong sense that this is all about "How can we fix my broken wife?" Her self-esteem is most likely already non-existent. Suggesting that it may be depression may only make it seem more like "she's at fault." She may not be open to suggestions from the OP at this point.

Get into counseling, both couples and individually. And let the counselor suggest it if he/she feels it's appropriate.

Just my two cents (again).

 

[Xero]

I don't know if I would victimize his wife quite THAT much, I mean there's no way for me to say that you're wrong, but I know plenty of people that are just that lazy and unappreciative. I wouldn't suggest depression to the OP just for the fact that if mentioned to her it would be the perfect excuse to do what she's doing and get sympathy for it. I think if given the opportunity to do so, its easy for ANYONE to become lazy and unmotivated. I mean, nobody is going to take you to jail or fire you if you don't clean your house or do your dishes. That fact alone is enough to tempt most people to neglect those things. I don't really know if we should be making things go as deep as "what's wrong with your relationship" or "but how does she FEEL". I think that's reading way too far in to a pretty simple problem. I have gotten lazy enough to let things go before in my lifetime as well, and so have many people I know, and it never had anything to do with depression or how much their husband's loved them (or mine loved me).

Personally I would start to feel pretty resentful if I worked 80 hours a week, studied for school the rest of the time, and tried hard to be a good parent in between, and DH didn't work or go to school at all and all he had to do was take care of our two kids and keep the house/dishes/laundry KINDA clean. Assuming there is no problem with OP and his wife's relationship (and honestly, I don't feel like he ever indicated that there was, but that's just me) then that seems just rude and unappreciative, and I don't know if I can really give in to the idea that it all stems from her husband apparantly doing something wrong. If you're not happy with your husband, say something or leave him, don't make your kids live in filth and eat garbage day to day. I just don't see the correlation.

 

[NancyM]

To me, this whole situation is about the relationship. All of the housekeeping stuff is the symptom. I'm not sure if I missed it in there, but the first thing I thought when I read this was:

<I>What does your wife think is wrong with your relationship?</I>

I think it would be very illuminating to hear what she would say. I know that when I was in marriage counseling, the biggest shock for me was how the two of us could have such <I>completely </I>different feelings about what was wrong with our relationship. You've made it clear what your concerns are and where you think the problems lie. If a third party were to ask you to list the top five things that are wrong with your relationship, what would you choose? What would your wife choose?


I suspect that you realize that you haven't been keeping up your end of the relationship and that you understand that you're at least partially responsible for the state of things with your wife. I can tell, because you spend a HUGE amount of time in your posts trying to excuse your behavior. Your excuses are good ones - your work, your school, and so on. It certainly isn't as if you are off doing drugs and partying and wondering why the house isn't clean. But again, relationships aren't about logic. If your wife is sad, lonely, and unhappy, and thinking "This isn't what I wanted from a marriage," then it frankly wouldn't matter if you were out curing cancer or solving world peace.~S

I agree.

 

[jessicams]

When my hubby and I found out that we were having twins we realized that affording childcare for 2 wasn't going to work for us so I decided to stay home. In my mind, my "job" is the home and our kids. The only things I don't do are change the cat litter, take out the garbage and cook (he enjoys cooking). He also takes care of the budget because he likes the control and I hate the responsibility. Our house isn't spotless-it is definitely messy but it's not dirty and there is a significant difference between the two. We also are in the middle of some renovations so it's a big disorganized at this point but the important things (sweeping, mopping, dishes, laundry, bathroom etc) get done. It's my job and while I didn't get a real choice in the matter, I have to make the best of it.

With that all said, my hubby works about 50hours a week plus his 10 hours of commute time so he's out of the house for 60 hours but if I need help, he will help. Before he had this job he was working 60 hours a week and working on his master's degree while on third shift so if anyone knows exhaustion, it's him and even then, he still helped me around the house.

 

[dave]

I think you should hire the housekeeper. that way the house stays clean.

then i reccomend a few sessions of relationship counseling. I can see a very rocky future.

you are only going to become more and more upset. and it will bubble over eventually.

Kudos for going as far as you have without losing your mind.
I work at night and im a SAHD during the day! Its easy sometimes i shirk chores but i never let it get near as bad as your describe. some people are just okay living in filth. You are obviously not and if she could understand that maybe she will cater to your needs more.