Since when is having low income an excuse for education or courtesy?...

[jtee]

Quite personally, if you were working at mcdonalds and had a 17 year old manager working above you, would you consider yourself in a decent career? Or want to go to school to further your education and find a better job? (jsut using mcdonalds as a example)

I tend to think its why that person has the job (at McDonalds). Is it a retired person who's already had decent carreer and just wants a little added income and something to do a few hours a day, or as you're suggesting, a person who's wants to get ahead and have a carreer. Clearly if it is someone who's looking to advance a carreer, they need to be doing more to helpselves (ie get seek out higher education\training\experience).

 

[meow_173]

exactly

 

[jtee]

I should point out McDonalds does have a manager training program, and they do have examples of long time employees who started out as high school employees and have risen extremely high in the McDonalds corporation, such as regional managers and vice presidents. These people may not be millionaires, but they make the kind of money most of would love to have.

Like Ari2, I once worked at McDonalds for a short period many years ago, so I understands the pros\cons of working there.

 

[meow_173]

Oh i understand that. And i was only using it as an example. Not every fast food chain (other than timmy's) have a program such as that.

 

[Skyburning]

I'm not quite sure if i deserved the aggrivated reply, however comparitively speaking, once one goes to college/university finds a major that they can use within the working world and do this so that they do not have to settle on minimum wage jobs. I never once said that i don't applaud those who work in these jobs, because they have to provide for them selves and quite possibly a family as well. On the other hand, we were discussing the reasons as to <I>WHY</I> they chose not to create a path and go and further their career options.
Quite personally, if you were working at mcdonalds and had a 17 year old manager working above you, would you consider yourself in a decent career? Or want to go to school to further your education and find a better job? (jsut using mcdonalds as a example)

I managed a fast food restaurant for over a year before I got the job I have now. (I'm 19, btw) To me, any job that comfortably provides for your family is decent enough. If working at McDonalds is what floats your boat then go for it. You're working for highly demanded industry. To answer your question more personally, When I worked at Bumpers (Mississippi's version of Sonic) I made 6.75 an hour as a manager (talk about underpaid) but I loved my job. I worked hard and worked with other hard working people and we all had a good time. Now, I work as a bill collector, make 9.50 an hour and I'm miserable. I only took the job because I set my own schedule and can take leave whenever I feel like it. I wanted that in case my son gets sick and needs me home with him. But to be completely honest, I make less money (no tips and fewer hours since I can't work before 4 as most people aren't home to call), I am bored out of my mind..I'm less active, and I hate it. If I didn't have to have time off approved at Bumpers I'd go back in a heartbeat. I never had less that $2000 in the bank and all my bills were paid.

The only person I ever felt sorry for was not myself, but the irate customers that treated me like dirt because I worked in fast food. Yet they were the ones that asked me to prepare it for them.

Long story short, don't bite the hand that feeds you, and I'm not just talking about the food industry. Retail, fast food, gas station clerks, etc..if everyone decides to do better for themselves who is going to do for you?

 

[meow_173]

I managed a fast food restaurant for over a year before I got the job I have now. (I'm 19, btw) To me, any job that comfortably provides for your family is decent enough. If working at McDonalds is what floats your boat then go for it. You're working for highly demanded industry. To answer your question more personally, When I worked at Bumpers (Mississippi's version of Sonic) I made 6.75 an hour as a manager (talk about underpaid) but I loved my job. I worked hard and worked with other hard working people and we all had a good time. Now, I work as a bill collector, make 9.50 an hour and I'm miserable. I only took the job because I set my own schedule and can take leave whenever I feel like it. I wanted that in case my son gets sick and needs me home with him. But to be completely honest, I make less money (no tips and fewer hours since I can't work before 4 as most people aren't home to call), I am bored out of my mind..I'm less active, and I hate it. If I didn't have to have time off approved at Bumpers I'd go back in a heartbeat. I never had less that $2000 in the bank and all my bills were paid.

The only person I ever felt sorry for was not myself, but the irate customers that treated me like dirt because I worked in fast food. Yet they were the ones that asked me to prepare it for them.

Long story short, don't bite the hand that feeds you, and I'm not just talking about the food industry. Retail, fast food, gas station clerks, etc..if everyone decides to do better for themselves who is going to do for you?

Kind of like how are you going to get a case of pepsi off the shelf, or from the cooler unless i put it out for you? Trust me i konw. And i konw what you mean about irate accounts. I understand what you are saying, but again, like in your situation, why not go to school? WHy not get OSAP or whatever student loans there are, and get lets say a business degree or something so that instead of only having 2000.00 in the bank, you can make $2,000 every 2 weeks?

 

[jtee]

How do you expect to live the life you love without someone doing these jobs for you.

Yes, whatever their personal reasons for having that job, they shouldn't be looked down upon for doing that job. The jobs at lower end tend to have a high turn over rate because for most people it is a stepping stone to something else, but there are those who have found their professional niche in life working at place at a company that pays them pays minimum wage. This is not a bad thing, it is a good thing that they have found some place where they can be successful. Not everybody has the talent\skill\passion to be a CEO, I know I sure don't

 

[meow_173]

Yes, whatever their personal reasons for having that job, they shouldn't be looked down upon for doing that job. The jobs at lower end tend to have a high turn over rate because for most people it is a stepping stone to something else, but there are those who have found their professional niche in life working at place at a company that pays them pays minimum wage. This is not a bad thing, it is a good thing that they have found some place where they can be successful. Not everybody has the talentskillpassion to be a CEO, I know I sure don't

And its better that they <I>HAVE</I> a job rather then not...

 

[Ari2]

The only person I ever felt sorry for was not myself, but the irate customers that treated me like dirt because I worked in fast food. Yet they were the ones that asked me to prepare it for them.

It's been many years and jobs since my summer stints at McD's, and I still haven't been treated by anyone as horribly as some of the customers treated me when I worked the counter. Most of the customers were ok - not awful, not wam-n-fuzzy. But some....these included the guy who threw a golf ball through the drive-through window and at my head because his special order was going to take special time to make, the guy who came in regularly and insisted that his hamburger and fries were cooked without salt and that we wipe down the grill and (drained) fryer to remove any salt traces...and then drenched his order in salt in front of us just to show that he was in charge, the woman who complained that her fresh order of fries was cold and then dumped them on the floor and stomped on them like a bratty toddler, and the parents who would swear at us like drunken felons in front of their kids. This doesn't include the casual, everyday disdain most of the "polite" customers trotted out whenever something was not to their liking.

I am grateful I had the experience as it showed me a life I could live and really hate as an alternative to the life I chose. It also gives me enormous sympathy to any hardworking, not-incredibly-polite person who is toiling in a demanding, low-paying job. I only hope that they can find a way to a better paying position. I don't appreciate rudeness from a worker any more than I appreciated rudeness from customers at McD's, but I understand when folks' attitudes are less than bright and shiny. Low-paying service jobs can be a real grind.

 

[Skyburning]

Kind of like how are you going to get a case of pepsi off the shelf, or from the cooler unless i put it out for you? Trust me i konw. And i konw what you mean about irate accounts. I understand what you are saying, but again, like in your situation, why not go to school? WHy not get OSAP or whatever student loans there are, and get lets say a business degree or something so that instead of only having 2000.00 in the bank, you can make $2,000 every 2 weeks?

I am going to school I'm just trying to show the other side of the argument, and until Jan of this year (I turned 19 Dec 31st.) I was not eligible for any financial aid. I worked my butt off and paid my tuition in cash every semester. I was unfortunately in the bracket where my parents made too much for me to qualify for anything, yet they didn't make enough to help me. A LOT of people fall into this bracket. All I'm saying is the people in these jobs work hard for what they have and I have a lot of respect for that. I moved out when I was 16, was renting a house(with roomies of course), paying my tuition, and keeping money in the bank with my measly 6 dollars an hour. I bought my car with the money I made from that job and I never asked anyone for any help. Not the government or my family, and to me, that is decent. I'm two years away from my nursing degree and I've taken a semester off to be with my little boy.

 

[meow_173]

Good for you!

 

[jtee]

Well stated Ari, I can related, and I am sure anyone who has worked in fast food can relate. It very much does help keep life in a balanced perspective.

 

[meow_173]

Well stated Ari, I can related, and I am sure anyone who has worked in fast food can relate. It very much does help keep life in a balanced perspective.

I remebmer in highschool i worked at dollarama...i HATED it.

 

[Skyburning]

I am grateful I had the experience as it showed me a life I could live and really hate as an alternative to the life I chose. It also gives me enormous sympathy to any hardworking, not-incredibly-polite person who is toiling in a demanding, low-paying job. I only hope that they can find a way to a better paying position. I don't appreciate rudeness from a worker any more than I appreciated rudeness from customers at McD's, but I understand when folks' attitudes are less than bright and shiny. Low-paying service jobs can be a real grind.

I'm grateful for the experience too but maybe for different reasons. Before I got the job I was too shy to speak to a stranger on the phone. I was always polite, of course, but I never went out of my way to be nice. Working there opened my eyes to how truly horrible people will treat each other, and it also brought me out of my shell in a lot of ways. I never spoke to any of the customers with anything less than a smile despite being screamed at and demeaned. Although the most rewarding day there was when one of my carhops dropped a wrapped fork on the ground (it was windy and it blew off her tray) and picked it up and handed it to the customer. The customer was disgusted and demanded a new one (keep in mind it was WRAPPED) so the carhop came inside, got a new one, and took it back at which time the woman demanded a manger. I walked out, young and polite as could be and was NOT what this woman was expecting. She was taken back for a second while I informed her that my carhop had done nothing wrong and she was welcome to another fork if she wished but she wouldn't be yelling at my employees anymore. LOL, she just left.

Anyway, point being, now I make sure to smile at everyone I pass and to always be a notch more polite than necessary. It really does make a difference to people in the service industry when you are nice to them, and you'll get better service in return.

 

[jtee]

I remebmer in highschool i worked at dollarama...i HATED it.

I highly recommend that everyone have at least one job they truly hate. Bad pay, bad management, and treated like garbage no matter how hard you work. .... It helps you later in your career not to complain about unimportant things that have no impact on you what so ever. And value good management and good co-workers.

 

[meow_173]

I highly recommend that everyone have at least one job they truly hate. Bad pay, bad management, and treated like garbage no matter how hard you work. .... It helps you later in your career not to complain about unimportant things that have no impact on you what so ever.

I TOTALLY agree. the one person who was there, he wasn't even a "key holder" apparently wrote me up 5 times in one shift (btw he hated me and told me he disliked me) and i got called in a few days later and was fired. Of course at the time i was devestated and didn't think that they couldn't do this because when you are written up you have to sign beside where they write you up...

 

[jtee]

I TOTALLY agree. the one person who was there, he wasn't even a "key holder" apparently wrote me up 5 times in one shift (btw he hated me and told me he disliked me) and i got called in a few days later and was fired. Of course at the time i was devestated and didn't think that they couldn't do this because when you are written up you have to sign beside where they write you up...

I have never had anything like that happen to me, but I can relate by having worked in 1-2 places where crap like that happened, and I didn't stick around very long. Some places don't want truly good employees, the management wants those who will put with being treated poorly because the employee feels trap (needs a job, any job). If an employee puts up with abuse, they'll literally do pretty much anything they are told. Such jobs are truly the bottom of the barrel jobs.

 

[Ari2]

I highly recommend that everyone have at least one job they truly hate. Bad pay, bad management, and treated like garbage no matter how hard you work. .... It helps you later in your career not to complain about unimportant things that have no impact on you what so ever. And value good management and good co-workers.

I absolutely agree.

I once worked for a completely arrogant, mentally unstable wacko. He threw things at me, screamed at the top of his lungs for no reason, browbeat our assistants so frequently that we couldn't get help, and scared off both our clients and our peers. Unlike McD's, I was extremely well paid, and this caused me to stay longer than I should have. When I did quit, he was forced to undergo "rage management" classes as the company was sick of paying for his psychosis. His initials were "FAT", and, being both clueless and arrogant, he had every belonging monogrammed with "FAT" (he also was morbidly obese and refused to buy clothes that fit him). My goal in life is to never be FAT, and even the worst person I've worked for since has seemed like a lightweight bad guy in comparison.

 

[musicmom]

Did I miss something or did jtee just add "courtesy" to the title?

 

[jtee]

Ari, I have been a victim (loosing\quiting my job) while a company is unaware they have someone in management that needs to be fired. Often before a bad manager is fired, the company looses good employees who are either fired by the bad manager, or they quit. Good people often do pay the price (short term) when the wrong person is placed in a management position. Good\hard workers do land on their feet, but bad managers can cause a of havoc.

During a job interview, it very important that you don't get bad vibes from person you're going to be reporting to. My mistake in the past was I ignored my gut level bad feeling, and ended up working for manager who later was demoted for many justified reasons. I can't beleive he wasn't fired, in part he was literally leveraging his position to push his religion on people (Ie come to my church, it will make your job easier if you do, and harder if you don't).