Teen's Pravacy vs Protection: Keylogger...

[TabascoNatalie]

allright, maybe I'm wrong, and there are things I don't get. Like i didn't get what makes this boy such a scumbag. is he doing drugs? is he a criminal? is he living in a dumpster?
ok, he might not the perfect prospect for a son-in-law, he made a few stupid choices, but is it really such a big deal? Brokenhearted, the way you react, you're making HIM the centre of universe. I guess, if she could be seing him in the open, maybe it would be a question of weeks or months, until she realizes that he's no good for her, there are plenty of other cute boys. and now they have all the thrill of forbidden romance. and much longer time to actually learn the lesson, if ever learn it.

And no I am not funding her to secure her life with a loser and his loser family.

no offense, but do you hate him more than you care about your daughter's future?

Most teens when their mouth is moving THEY ARE LYING.

that's very right. moreover, teens are selfish, and they want things here and now. they react adversly to things they are being told to do or phrases like "wait till you grow up".
But... what reaction do they get for telling the truth? being shouted at, being punished? and still expected to tell the truth?
the worrying part is, if a teen really get into trouble -- will a parent be the first person they'd go for help?

I don't pretend to know whether or not his family are losers, but I can at least sympathize with the fact that I would be very negative towards any supposedly responsible, respectful adults that go behind my back as a parent to help two teens sneak around, clearly showing my daughter that it doesn't matter what I say and she can do what she wants. They help them sneak around, and lie, and be deceitful. That's wrong and immature. At least a little bit loser-ish. IMO

Xero, you're a mother of a boy. Let's say your son is seing a girl, who's mother dislikes your family for no valid reason, like your lower social standing or that you're not doctors or lawyers. would you try to be more understanding for your son, or take the side of some strange lady?

 

[AmyBelle]

^^^ Hey, my inlaws still disapprove of me, their son started dating a stripper for gods sake, a stripper with two dads and red hair. Damn, im such a horrible influence on their perfect son. Must be horrible for them.

Meanwhile, back onto the point. Brokenhearted, forgive me if im not following the story correctly, but she has broken up with him in the past, but theyre now back together and she is seeing him behind your back? Does she know you disapprove, because that would count for the whole behind your back thing.

Sure, he dosent seem ideal, but its not like she's marrying the guy, everyone's entitled to one complete jerk to date, then look back on and go "my god why was I with him again?" it happens to almost everyone. Eventually she will come to her senses and find someone else.

That said, is there a chance that it was not him on the voicemail? Or a chance that it was him and she was confronted by it at the time but now, having grown a year does not feel that it is so horrible anymore?

 

[Brokenhearted]

Ok I HOPE THIS IS ACTUALLY READ AND NOT SKIMMED!
I am going to try to explain this once more. My daughter who is NOW GOING ON 17 at the time this all began was 14. I do not have as much a problem with his age as I do the fact that he was texting and calling upwards of 800 per day. How do you spell stalker. At the time that he was texting her this much they were PERMITTED to see each other UNDER MY DIRECTION. I said they could see each other IF THEY HAD AT LEAST 2 of HER FRIENDS (HER AGE) accompany them. This was not acceptable to either of them! They wanted to be completely alone. Umm hello MCFLYYYYYYYYY why do you think they wanted to be COMPLETELY ALONE???? HELLOOOOOOO????

Now as for my daughter's freedom as I said in the very beginning post if anyone bothered to read.... she was given freedom with AGE APPROPRIATE restrictions. The both of them (the boy and my daughter) along with his Mother have shown they cannot be trusted because they on a number of occasions outright tried to trick me and pretend as if her friends were accompanying them to the mall. This was found out NOT to be the case they were alone!

Now after all of the lies and she just got caught lying again and sneaking around with him being in his car when she was not allowed, and being alone with him when she was not allowed. Now they want to "follow the rules" and only be together when they are in a group? Well I am not a dope and do not believe any of them. My daughter has shown she cannot be trusted at this time. Perhaps in the future she will be able to, not now.

Also ANYTIME my daughter is with this boy it is obvious. Her whole demeanor changes. She begins telling me to go F myself and gets a really lousy attitude. Before she began a friendship with him she was not that disrespectful. He has told her outright not to listen to her parents. He has told her that he is going to one day take her away and marry her so we never see her again. I believe he is an ABUSER. Yes I know what one is I married one years ago (divorced and remarried now)and am also a Certified Domestic Violence Counselor so my training taught me things that my experience did not.

Hopefully I have explained myself enough for all you perfect parents out there that think teens should be allowed to date whomever and be alone. Remember she is a TEENAGE NOT AN ADULT. She is also completely immature and unfortunately is the brains of that whole relationship. He is more immature than my daughter. As I said I met the family and in their home the WORD NO IS NEVER UTTERED. He has in fact challenged me a number of times telling me they are doing nothing wrong they have a right to see each other if they want.

 

[Dadu2004]

Brokenhearted, no one here is claiming to be a perfect parent. A few of us here are sticking up for your situation. I have put a stop to you being accused of being a troll. So, please cut the sarcasm. You're welcome to state your opinion, but do it respectfully. I expect respect and a good attitude from all of our members and you're no different.

 

[16th ave.]

no where in your initial post was it stated that she did not want to see him, that she was afraid of him or that she had tried to break it off. you only made it clear that you wanted them to break it off. you did not make the seriousness of the situation clear enough. you only said that there had been a few rules broken and a whole lot of texting going on that seemed to be on the abusive side of things. the rest of that stuff did come about until after a few more posts on your problem. it is what got you all these comments from signs of abuse to you being overprotective and some in between.
people Are reading your post(s). they Do get it.
no one is attacking you or anything. remember we are not there and can only come up with a solution from the little that you initially gave us and are now giving us.

had this sort of stuff gone on w/my kids you can bet i'd be doing the same thing you have done. your dd is already 17. i would suggest, if you haven't already, sit down and talk to your daughter in an adult manner. treat her as an adult w/out giving out that you think that she's "just a teenager and can't make reliable decisions b/c she's not an adult" sort of thing. in other words try to treat her as an equal the same as you would a young lady you've just met who is roughly the same age who has asked for advice. see how she really feels about the situation and go from there. if she's only in it b/c she feels pressured to be there then come up with a solution to the problem w/this young man Together. But if she's willing to stay in the situation then support her decision while always being on the sidelines letting her know you'll be there for her no matter what happens and no matter what decision she makes.
its hard yes. but except for a matter of a few months time, she's basically and adult. go ahead and treat her as an adult. not saying to sit back and do nothing. sitting back and quietly showing support in her ability to make level headed decisions is not sitting back and doing nothing. sure she's made mistakes already concerning this relationship. but who hasn't made mistakes?

 

[IADad]

and brokenhearted, I wonder if you really read the responses. I think you got a lot of balance and varied opinion in the responses, but you lump everyone together as "you people?" Kinda makes me sorry I bothered to read your posts and write responses from my heart and experience.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

Brokenhearted, first of all you need to calm down. This is only a forum, and you're talking to other parents.

At the time that he was texting her this much they were PERMITTED to see each other UNDER MY DIRECTION. I said they could see each other IF THEY HAD AT LEAST 2 of HER FRIENDS (HER AGE) accompany them. This was not acceptable to either of them! They wanted to be completely alone. Umm hello MCFLYYYYYYYYY why do you think they wanted to be COMPLETELY ALONE???? HELLOOOOOOO????

Now as for my daughter's freedom as I said in the very beginning post if anyone bothered to read.... she was given freedom with AGE APPROPRIATE restrictions. The both of them (the boy and my daughter) along with his Mother have shown they cannot be trusted because they on a number of occasions outright tried to trick me and pretend as if her friends were accompanying them to the mall. This was found out NOT to be the case they were alone!

they were alone... in the MALL? or I don't understand something again...

 

[hwnorth]

OK ... first issue .... KEYLOGGERS ...
Im my family... we have 6 kids .. 20-9 yrs old. Instead of keyloggers, we use constant communication with one another .. and it works quite well. Its a skill that too many parents these days dont use with their children, spouses, etc.. IMO.
If our kids are going out... we know where.. when, whith whom and what thay are doing. The teens wil even tell us if there is going to be drinking.
Do I agree with underage drinking ? NO! , can you stop it ? Good luck... I did it, my parents did it... its just something thats gonna happen... BUT...what you can do through communication is educated them. None of my kids drink and drive, nor will any of them get in a vehicle with someone who has been drinking.

As far as the other issue goes with the teen ... first off.. shes 17 and its a little late to dictate to them what they can and cant do. I understand "house rules" but you have already pretty much molded them and helped them set their path. They are now a young adult,and treating them like a 10 year old will only backfire.

Case in point .. my 16 year old was dating a boy that I wasnt fond of for many reasons, but I know that teenage love is a strong bond, and though communication, she would see the true colors, when she was ready. I told her that although I didnt support her relationship with him (and explained why) that I still supported and loved her. She understood my reasonings and gave me her reasons ... end result.. shes not with him anymore and has gone through a relationship that has taught her what she DOESNT want in life and in a relationship .... Id rather she learned that leson as a teen ... than an adult... divorced, abused and witha child.

 

[Xero]

Xero, you're a mother of a boy. Let's say your son is seing a girl, who's mother dislikes your family for no valid reason, like your lower social standing or that you're not doctors or lawyers. would you try to be more understanding for your son, or take the side of some strange lady?

First of all, I asked you to stop harrassing this member. I wont ask you again.

Second of all, no I absolutely would not go out of my way to teach my son that he can be a deceptive, dishonest, disrespectful young man by allowing him to persue a girl that is NOT ONLY WAY TOO YOUNG for him, but also has a mother that DOES NOT WANT HIM SEEING HER. Absolutely not. Not only that, but I wouldn't personally have any desire for my son to be hanging out with some girl who's family hates him and my family. He can do better than that, he doesn't have to settle for someone who hates him and disrespects our family. So I would have no problem supporting the girl's mother's decision. And that's BESIDES the fact that I think its disgusting for an 18 yr old and a 14 yr old to be dating, probably having sex. I would expect my 18 yr old to have sex. I would hope my 14 year old wouldn't be yet. A couple made up of the two makes immoral things happen. I wont support that. And its just an insult for you to suggest that I would be as childish as to help my son go about doing it. You need to agree to disagree on this subject, and DROP IT.


Brokenhearted: I still agree with you. I still think you're right. But please stay respectful. We're all adults here, and a lot of us have kids the same age you do or close to it. There's no need to talk like you're the only one that knows about kids in a parenting forum. We're trying to defend you, so don't make us look bad by acting nasty.

 

[Brokenhearted]

Xero
Certainly was not meaning to be nasty just getting kinda sick of the other parents acting as if my caring for my daughters well being is crazy.

Don't appreciate someone suggesting I should talk to and trust my daughter when I have obviously already done that. She surely could not fool me if I wasn't dumb enough to trust her in the first place. She has been trusted most of her life and rightly so. Since she has been with this boy there have been major trust issues. Again I really have very little issue with the age except that he is now almost 20 and she is almost 17 and my daughter is still a virgin. I just don't want to keep testing the waters by her having opportunity to be alone with him which is why it was ALWAYS the rule. It would have been the rule no matter whom she dated. Most parents I know have their kids dating but they go in groups not one on one. Things stay safer that way.

 

[Brokenhearted]

Tabasco
Yes as I said in above post, they lied again and were alone at mall. He has a car and she was in his car yet again.His Mother assists them in their lies which is why I do not like her. Oh btw for the other poster, my daughter has always told me everything as far as drinking and drugs and stealing and even boys. Problem is that she has NEVER dated anyone else. Crazy for a girl of 17 to be tied down in a serious relation. Especially since they have not really had any dates except for the Prom 2 years ago and sneaking to the Mall.

 

[Father_0f_7]

Crazy for a girl of 17 to be tied down in a serious relation

While, yes...it is uncommon for that to happen, it doesnt make it "crazy" or a bad thing. At least not in some cases.

In this situation, yes it is probably bad, but I'm sticking to my guns. When will she turn 18? I hate to say it because I am leaning more towards your point of view, but when she turns 18 and if she moves out of your house there isnt much you can do.

Right now, I dont know what to tell you. I believe you said before you have spoken to the boy about his behavior? I know you have spoken to your daughter about his behavior but I cant quite remember if you said you spoke to him.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

His Mother assists them in their lies which is why I do not like her.

I'd like so say a word in defense of the boy's mother. if he's 17-18 at the time, maybe his mother isn't really keeping track of every time and every friend who is accompanying her son to the mall? or she can be lied to as well?
if it was me in the situation, i'd at least be confused.
i understand you're angry at them for breaking your rule, but on the other hand... what bad can happen in the mall in the daytime? they wouldn't be having sex there or something? and they obviously are not *alone* in the mall. (do we refer to the "mall" here as a giant supermarket where you normally go shopping?)

Crazy for a girl of 17 to be tied down in a serious relation. Especially since they have not really had any dates except for the Prom 2 years ago and sneaking to the Mall

would you object so much if it was some other boy?
i'm not harrassing you or trying to disagree to every word. but... if its been going on for what seems now like years, maybe its a signal that really they really care about each other? i mean, if they're willing to face the trouble. other kids might have found "easier" dates. YES, you have full rights to object that realtionship. But maybe you shouldn't completely disregard your daughter's feelings?

By the way, if you're concerned about your daughter meeting other, different people, maybe you and her should try travelling? summer camp? switching schools? volunteering? i know it's a school year, but just some random thoughts.:idea:

-------------------------------

And its just an insult for you to suggest that I would be as childish as to help my son go about doing it.

Xero, i'm suggesting nothing. i thought we're having a debate. i am sorry you took a hypothetical situation so personally.

 

[Brokenhearted]

The reasons I am so aggravated is because
1. I have spoken to the boy about his behaviors and how they creep me out
2. I have spoken to his parents
3. I have spoken to my daughter

* It is true at one point back summer of 2008 we MADE them break up
* It is also true that at the point I made her break up with him she was 14 going on 15 (now is 16 going on 17 in December) he is going to be 20 in August
* After we made them break up she accepted it and began following our rules which is why she was given the freedom (she stayed away from him all of her 10th grade year)

* She stayed away from him until this year her 11th grade year in June he began showing up at her work in May and sending his sister to talk to her and she gave in and decided she wanted him in her life

** I agree that she will eventually be 18 and won't be able to dictate to her to stay away from men who are showing signs of abuse and if she decided to be with him, it will not be made easy for her I see her making a big mistake because she cannot follow her dreams and woo this dope at the same time (she cannot multi task)

 

[Xero]

I'd say once she turns 18 (assuming you're still paying for college, car and whatnot) if it were me I would give the relationship a chance, let her try it out and see how they do. If she starts failing school, dooing poorly at work, or getting into trouble then I would threaten her with a cut off from school and car and living money. That at least gives you a chance to prove your point, and makes it more than fair for you to take these things from her. But only after she's turned 18, IMO. Just because I don't approve of big age gap relationships that involve teenagers under 18. After that, they can pretty much date whoever they want. Its what I think I would do.

 

[Brokenhearted]

Makes sense. Even though I truly feel I gave them a chance which is how I was made an a%% out of several times over. Mainly just worried because he exhibits a lot of signs of wanting her all to himself and cutting her off from friends and family. But I think I could do that once she is 18 and hopefully a bit more mature.

 

[16th ave.]

ok, so she Aint 17. i thought she was since you said she was and didn't say that she was almost 17 in your first post about this whole mess.

let me get this straight now: you have spoken to her, him, And his parents about this and made it clear he and she aint allowed contact. his mom continues to help it happen, encouraging the lying and most likely other sorts of negative behavior such as drinking (just a guess but its possible since there is lying). he wont stay away from a Minor even though he has been told to stay away. she's Still a minor and has been displaying the very behavior you wont accept and shouldn't accept.

the way i see it the only option you've got is to get a restraining order and file charges for statutory rape and file charges against him and his mom for contributing to the delinquincy of a minor. depending on your state, laws were broken from the get go with him being a 17 yr. old then when he turned 18 and his mom was helping him.
with your daughter, i'd suggest getting you and your daughter into counseling together and grounding her from everything until this messy situation can be resolved.
and keep doing your best in supporting her as you normally would even though at times you wont agree with her decisions.


you can do all that if you are not willing to wait and see since your daughter is almost 17 and will be 18 soon enough. depends on you.

after all that, i'd be pretty danged ticked off too.

 

[Father_0f_7]

file charges for statutory rape

Cant do that, she said her daughter was a virgin. And depending on what state she's in, she may not be under the age of consent anyway.

But she can get the restraining order if worse comes to worse.

 

[bssage]

first off. You cant run with scissors??

Second One thing I have mentioned before and suppose I will again. Is you are doing a disservice to your children letting them believe there is some expetation of privacy on the internet or cell phone. I have told my boy that I will check his internet history and system log from time to time to see that he is not somewere he shouldnt be. And I do, many times while he and I are playing games in his room. I dont think its "spying" If they know your doing it. I would only resort to spying If I had a good reason to go to that extreme. He understands that people go to jail, get fired from jobs, and kicked out of school for things they do on the computer and with cell phones. It not private for anyone. I think what FO6 said was also well put and worth repeating.

Of course I have taught my children well (I believe) but that doesnt mean they arent going to want to learn for themselves.

Kids will be kids, you can teach them all the right things, how to be careful, how to act. It doesnt mean they will listen. It's their responsibility to follow the guidelines you have set for them.

As far as the derailed portion of the thread. I dont think that you can make people the age were talking about. Do what you want. I believe its called peeing in the wind. Sure you can get mad. You can let off some steam. You can get some support here. And some contridicting opinions. But that does not change the fact. That you cant succesfully force these young adults to behave the way you would like.

It sounds like you have done the right things as a parent giving the information and education she will need to make informed decisions. But I am sorry to say thats probably as far as you can go.

IMHO

<SIZE size="75">The views expressed in this post are not the view of the forum or its members. they are only the humble opinion of this poster</SIZE>

 

[Brokenhearted]

i understand you're angry at them for breaking your rule, but on the other hand... what bad can happen in the mall in the daytime? they wouldn't be having sex there or something? and they obviously are not *alone* in the mall. (do we refer to the "mall" here as a giant supermarket where you normally go shopping?)

Not sure why you don't get this but this "boy" drives a car, last I checked that makes them mobile. This means they are not where they say they are as I have caught that happening as well. They are alone meaning UNSUPERVISED. I think it's great that if this were your 16 1/2 yr old (17 in December) daughter that you would let them be alone. You know what they call parents like you? GRANDPARENTS! I am trying to prevent my daughter from making a mistake that can ruin her life.

As for his Mother she has been flat out told by me that I caught them being unsupervised. She has been caught by me, lying for them that they were NOT ALONE at the mall when they were and were alone in his car a few times. I expressly explained to this woman that I do not want my daughter alone in anyone's car. I am not in the habit of leaving teens alone of opposite sexes because ummm that is stupid.