What age do you stop spanking?...

[NinJaBob]

Please don't let this turn into a debate about whether or not you should spank. Regardless I don't believe that we will convert each other.

Just for the record we don't spank even though I have been spanked and beaten and everywhere in between. That is not the issue though.

My brother-in-law still spanks his 17 year old daughter.

This question is mostly for those who have or are willing to spank their children. But feel free to participate even if you don't.

At what age does the spanking stop? Do you base it on the individual child or is there an age where they are just too old?

I don't mean to start trouble as I know that this can be a hot topic I am just curious. I wonder if for those that do believe in spanking would you still be spanking at age 17?

 

[Xero]

I agree to NOT let this become a debate about whether or not parents should spank!!! I don't see anything wrong with stating whether or not you yourself spank, but there's no need to take it any further than that I think.

I don't spank either, but I think even for people that do spank 17 years old is way way way too old. I personally think that for those who use it, spanking should definitely be stopped by 12 years old. Even then it should depend on maturity so I would say in some cases as young as ten - but no older than twelve. Spanking a teenager is just kind of messed up if you ask me, because teenagers see that stuff in a whole different light, and I also think that there is a really thin line between corporal punishment and sexual abuse when you spank a teenager. That's just my opinion of course, but that's how it always appears in my mind. I'm always thinking "Eww, some guy spanks his 17 year old? That's just weird!". I also think the humiliation thing is on a whole new, and very damaging level past a certain age. And all of this aside from the pretty obvious, most likely scenario, of it just plain doesn't work anymore by then. I would have laughed my mom right in the face if she tried to spank me at 17.

 

[bssage]

Hmm not ignoring just thinking.

 

[singledad]

Well, its hard for me to say at what age to stop, because I think spanking at any age is both inappropriate and mostly ineffective. However, I accept that I cannot be objective about it, which is why I try to stay out of spanking debates.

But yes - at 17, I wouldn't call it spanking anymore. I would call it assaulting a young woman. Even if someone could convince me that spanking a small child is appropriate, I don't think anyone could ever convince me that laying your hands on a teenager in any way is ever appropriate.

I have to ask - is she happy? Do you think she would appreciate help with getting out of that situation? If yes - then I would definitely try talking to him (ya, I know, useless mission in most cases) and if he won't listen to reason, I would report him to the appropriate authority - whoever deals with cases of domestic violence or child abuse. See, I have a huge problem with people who take the "its none of my business" or "not my problem" approach where child abuse is concerned. I believe that every adult who knows of, or even suspects that a child is being abused, owes it to that child to at least make an effort to help him/her...

 

[Jeremy+3]

I think any age is too old, however if I knew someone who was hitting another person I would report them for ABH.

 

[stjohnjulie]

TROLL!!! Just kidding

Ok, I'm with the others, absolutely against any form of corporal punishment at any age. But if you made me answer, I am going to go with Xero on this one. I think once a child starts to sexual mature that there is a very very thin line between spanking and something that has sexual undertones. Without going into all of the other reasons why I think corporal punishment is wrong, I think that by the time a girl is 10, to avoid the sexual aspect of it, it should be done with. Boys, maybe 12, but definitely before they start to sexual mature.

And in this case, well, your brother in law has less than a year before he will be locked up for spanking her. I don't know why minors don't have the same protection as adults, but at 18 it becomes assault and your brother in law could go to jail for hitting his daughter. So regardless of what you think on a moral or personal level, the law steps in when she is 18 and says you can't legally hit her any more. (18 years too late in my opinion)

 

[NinJaBob]

I don't know what the law says either. I can only assume that as long as she is a minor that he may be legally allowed to do so but I am not basing that on any actual knowledge of the law, only guessing.

Whether what he is doing is wrong or not I know for a fact that this is not a case of sexual abuse. He is very strict and I don't agree with the vast majority of his parenting techniques but I also know him well enough to know that the motives behind what he is doing is an attempt to instill discipline not a sick attempt to get off on hurting his daughter.

I am not saying that what he is doing is right but it's definitely not sexual from his point of view. I truly don't know how she feels. This girl is a daughter of his is a result of a previous marriage and we did not meet her untill she was 10 and by then she had no interest in our family. My wife and kids and I have tried to make her feel welcome and as a member of the family but we are lucky if she even says hello to us. She for sure wont confide in us even if she was feeling abused. She appears to be a normal happy kid, just not interested in us.

 

[NinJaBob]

I would not have put up with it as a teenager either. My stepfather continued raising his fist to me until I was about 15 and I made sure that he knew that those days were over an that I was going to fight back. He ramped up the emotional abuse and even started blaming his heart condition on how utterly worthless I was.

Anyway I don't agree that he what he is doing is right but I also don't think that she is in serious danger. I am not the kind of person who allows people to be abused. A lot of people stood by and watched while I was abused so I know how that feels. If what he is doing is legal then my hands are tied.

I am not looking for solutions on how to fix my brother-in-law but when I heard from my mother that he was still spanking his daughter I was stunned and curious if this was the norm among people who use spanking as a tool or not.

He does not attack her in a rage in the school parking lot with what ever weapon he can find for using wire hangers. He believes that what he is doing is right. There is a big difference between what he does and Mommy Dearest. Not advocating spanking just making a distinction.

 

[mom2many]

I am not opposed to spanking, done right and not as your only from of punishment it can be a useful tool in discipline.

BUT 17 is WAY to OLD! 12 is way to old. As a mom who does on occasion spank, I find 10 is pushing it, but that can depend on the child. My 9 year old will say "Just spank me and get it over with" he has maybe been spanked 5 times...although threatened a lot. I know for him that isn't the right route...grounding to his room is his Achilles heel.

I don't know that I could keep my mouth shut about someone spanking a 17 year old. I don't keep my mouth shut with friends and family that spank for every offense a child makes either. While I have no issue with spanking per-say I do have a problem with spanking that borders on abusive.

 

[NinJaBob]

I don't usually tell others how to raise their children unless they ask me. Likewise if I receive unsolicited advice I generally ignore it and if they persist I tell them mind their business. he exception to that rule is if I respect them as a person and we generally agree on the majority of our child raising techniques and if their children are examples of how that works.

Unfortunately my family for the most part are in my opinion horrible parents and as a result their children are also horrible. By horrible parents I don't mean lock their children in dog cages and feed them cat food I mean basically ignore them until something bad happens. For example I was at my sisters house for a party and my nieces son who was 2 was climbing on the top of a tube slide about 7 feet off the ground. I yelled over to my sister so that she would know he was doing it and she said "that's ok I am tired of telling him to get down all the time. Maybe a trip o the emergency room will teach him a lesson." I walked over and pulled him off of it.

My entire families mentality is "well you ate lead paint, ran with scissors, didn't wear a seat belt, took candy from strangers, didn't wear a coat outside, ate nothing but Pixie Sticks and poked venomous snakes with sticks and you survived"

 

[Xero]

I believe that every adult who knows of, or even suspects that a child is being abused, owes it to that child to at least make an effort to help him/her...

Unfortunately as much as probably a ton of people think what this guy is doing is wrong, it is not considered abuse under the law so there's nothing NinjaBob could actually do other than tell the guy off. Depending on my relationship with a person in my family doing something like that, I may or may not say something to be completely honest.

Just for the record though, having been a part of the foster system for years, I do know for a fact that in most states it is in fact illegal for a person who knows that child abuse is occuring not to report it to the authorities. This can result in anything from a heavy fine to actual jail time - seriously.

 

[NancyM]

I think any age is too old, however if I knew someone who was hitting another person I would report them for ABH.

Me too.

 

[NinJaBob]

If I thought it was abuse and not just a bad idea then I would report it but I don't believe it is and if it's not illegal then nothing will change. We don't have morality police where I live and I truly don't know the law regarding spank here.

If you can spank a 7 year old in accordance with the law then why not a 17 year old. I'm sure the law specifies an age limit somewhere. I can see how at 18 it becomes assault because here children are considered adults. I do wish I knew for curiosity sake what the law said. Maybe I'll research it later.

 

[Xero]

What is ABH?

 

[Jeremy+3]

What is ABH?

Actual bodily harm

 

[Xero]

Oohhh I see.

 

[sbattisti]

I found an interesting link related to this, but I know we're not allowed to post links. Just google "state by state spanking laws". There's an interesting site that has the laws on spanking for each state. It doesn't include much about age, but the idea I'm getting is that as long as they are under 18, they're still minors and subject to spanking.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea, though.

 

[Xero]

sbattisti - as long as you're well known and we trust you (and we do haha), and your link is obviously not for advertising or spammy purposes, its actually okay. The link you're talking about would just offer more helpful information on the topic at hand, which is definitely okay.

 

[NinJaBob]

I found an interesting link related to this, but I know we're not allowed to post links. Just google "state by state spanking laws". There's an interesting site that has the laws on spanking for each state. It doesn't include much about age, but the idea I'm getting is that as long as they are under 18, they're still minors and subject to spanking.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea, though.

Does it mention anything about legally beating your wife on the courthouse steps on Tusdays? I may need to use that soon..................Leftovers again.

 

[singledad]

Unfortunately as much as probably a ton of people think what this guy is doing is wrong, it is not considered abuse under the law so there's nothing NinjaBob could actually do other than tell the guy off.

OK, I get that, but IMO that is also part of the problem. Who gets to decide what constitutes abuse? I have googled as sbattisti suggested, and have read up to a point. Some states seem to have pretty clear guidelines, others leave it pretty open, even allowing you to spank an "incompetent person", or to restrain a child...

My point is that you don't have to inflict serious pain for it to be abuse. Frankly, if I could choose between being beated half to death once or twice, or being slapped on an almost daily basis for little more than just being alive, I would choose the former. Physical wounds heal much quicker than psychological ones. And yes - for the record - I have experience of both options, and both perpetrators considered it "reasonalble and appropriate punishment". Of course it wasn't, but it just goes to show how people's opinions on what is appropriate differs.

Anyway, like I said, this is a bit close to home so I should probably stop here.

I accept that if Ninjabob, knowing the people invovled, and also having some experience with abuse, doesn't consider it abuse, it probably isn't. In that case it is just a really, really bad idea. I also believe that if the kid isn't really being abused, having her taken from her parents isn't always a good solution, since the foster care system here, and I suspect also in the US, isn't guarenteed to be an improvement.

Just for the record though, having been a part of the foster system for years, I do know for a fact that in most states it is in fact illegal for a person who knows that child abuse is occuring not to report it to the authorities. This can result in anything from a heavy fine to actual jail time - seriously.

Now that is awesome. Every country in the world should have laws like that, then people won't have to option of telling a kid looking for help "I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do". They'll have to at least report it...