What age do you stop spanking?...

[NinJaBob]

I have to agree with most people here on this one. I think even those that don't spank still do, so saying I don't believe in spanking is just for social status. !

:err:

Believe it or not I have never spanked my children either. I don't apologize to anyone regarding how I raise my children and this feel no need to hide anything. I'm sure that some people do spank but don't admit it. On the other hand make a statement like "I think even those that don't spank still do" is reckless.

No one should be spanking a 17 year old girl. I honestly think a man who spanks a 17 yr old girl is getting some type of sexual thrill out of it, I don't care if it's her father, uncle, priest,grandfather, or teacher.

In this particular case it is definitely not sexual. Wrong, yes, but not sexual. I know that some fathers do sexually abuse their kids but this dude is not getting off on it. He really does think that he is doing the right thing. I believe that he does it and that he truly does not know what else to do. It doesn't work so IMO he should definitely stop if for no other reason that t's ineffective.

He is wrong but for sure but he is not doing it for sexual pleasure I just can't stress that enough. I don't expect you to believe me but if you knew him and knew their history then I really don't believe that you would say that. I don't have the kind of time or desire to tell you their whole story but again it's not sexual.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

In this particular case it is definitely not sexual. Wrong, yes, but not sexual.

are you sure?
call me dirty... but i sometimes read adult themed literature. at that age (17) even by own father, spanking is something... BDSM. intended or not.

p.s. what for she gets spanked?

 

[NinJaBob]

are you sure?
call me dirty... but i sometimes read adult themed literature. at that age (17) even by own father, spanking is something... BDSM. intended or not.

p.s. what for she gets spanked?

I am positive. The dude is real strict but not getting sexual arousal. Out of everyone I know this is the last guy that I would ever accuse of that. He just wants so bad to get her on track that he just now what else to do.

I don't know about every time that she gets in trouble but he doesn't just spank her for getting a C on her report card or missing curfew by 15 minutes.

One time that I know of that he spanked her was about a month ago he caught her sneaking into the house at like 5 am or something like that and she stank of booze and drover herself home. Then tried to lie about it. I wouldn't have handled it the same way but he panicked and no he didn't spank her bare butt but he did spank her.

He is a recovering drug/alchohol addict who has been sober for about 12 years. Also his ex-wife (his daughters mother) is always in and out of prison for drug related offenses. His best friend (My step-brother) died because he and my bro-in-law were drunk and speeding on their motorcycles at night and my step-brother left behind 2 daughters and a wife. This is what caused my bro-in-law to straighten up.

My bro-in-law is just so scared that his daughter will make the same mistakes as himself and is ex-wife that he takes discipline to an extreme that I don't agree with but I do understand where he is coming from and again he is not doing it for sexual arousal.

 

[TabascoNatalie]

I am positive. The dude is real strict but not getting sexual arousal.

HE may not really mean it, but SHE might get it that way.

 

[NinJaBob]

HE may not really mean it, but SHE might get it that way.

 

[andrewdive]

So a few things - we've never spanked, I was and understand the need but 17!?!?!?! Really?!??!?! Wow!!?!?!?

So i guess my next question is - is this 17 year old being slapped on the back of the legs or is this the full on, across the lap, slapping of her rear type? - if the later then I think this is just plain odd and probably something to be very concerned about.

Ugh!

 

[Launa]

Research on spanking shows that what REALLY damages kids about spanking is when it is out of the 'norm' for the culture/family/community, etc. If a child lives in a culture where it is perfectly normal to get a swat (Note, I am NOT talking about beating), then the emotional damage is almost nil. These kids see it as normal as do all their friends, etc. What hurts is when a parent/family/community NEVER spanks and then one day, the parent reacts in a rage and spanks the child. The message is that what you did was sooooo bad and/or deviant you DESERVED to be hit.

I am not a spanker. Never have been or will be, but I recognize that it is a common practice in many families and cultures and the children are not irreparably harmed. The trick is does it fit into the larger context? Is it a beating or a swat?

In this case, I can't think of a culture/community I have experienced where it would be "normal" to spank a 17 yo. In this case, she is definitely too old and the tactics are clearly not working. It sounds like dad has a long history and a lot of triggers. He is losing control out of fear, not employing effective discipline. I feel for both of them. Maybe they need a little outside help to sort things out.

--Launa

 

[bssage]

Hmmmm

I think the Op has gotten lots of feedback so maybe I can without to much guilt throw a little derail out here.

In several opinions I apparently am abusing my kids. I'm OK with that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I enjoy listening to them.


Is it not abuse to yell or scream at your kids. Will you say NO I never yell or scream at my kids and never will. Or will you say that yelling or screaming is different. I only yell for certain reasons, or in a special way. I have (and you have to) seen and heard parents screaming bloody murder at their kids calling them names and verbally assaulting them. Can words cause pain and injury? Is their room in the collective opinion that its OK to raise your voice at times or is it across the board wrong?

I do not think that I abuse my children. I do think I take a reasoned approach to discipline. But to listen to the comments that the two occasions likely have scarred my boy for life and served only to steer him into the direction of juvenile delinquency.

If I came home from work to find out EG that Cole had lit his grandma's bushes on fire, or Yelled a racial slur to someone, Or committed some other outrageous offense he likely would receive the third spanking. I would not do anything at all until I had calmed and thought it through. But I want him to know that the penalties for offenses escalate in direct correlation. And it's a lesson I want him to remember. I know it's popular to call that a beating but I have seen beatings and IMHO this surely would not fall into that category.

If must be, I prefer he learn the hard lessons from me rather than prison or at the hands of strangers. Keep in mind he is ten and to date has received two spankings. One for punching a kid in the face at preschool and one for showing naked girlie pictures on the school bus. Neither exceeded three swats and neither left any type of mark on his rump.

Is their room in the collective opinion that its OK to spank at times or is it across the board wrong?

 

[singledad]

bssage, no, I don't think its across the board wrong. I know too many people who were spanked and didn't mind at all, for it to be the complete evil that some people make it out. In fact, I believe one has to always be careful about using words like "always" or "never" - never is a very long time.

I do think that one has to be very careful about WHY you spank - what is the message you are trying to get across, and isn't there perhaps a better way to do that? See, I don't know a lot about parenting, but I've read a lot, and I've come to the conclusion that any and all forms of discipline should have one goal - to teach a child that what he/she did was wrong, and how to do better next time. I can't imagine a situation where spanking would be the best way to teach that, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. If you truly believe that by using spanking you are teaching your kids to tell right from wrong, and not just teaching them that if they do certain things daddy will hit them, then I have no right to question that. You have posted way too much info for anyone to doubt that you love your kids, and have their best interest at heart.

And yes, there is a difference between spanking and beating. Anyone who cannot see that has probably never been on the receiving end of a real beating.

I have made the decision to never spank my daughter, but that was a personal decision based on a number of things. Yes, because of my history I have a completely emotional (irrational?) knee-jerk reaction of "hell, no" when I think about hitting my child. However, before she was born, my wife and I seriously considered keeping spanking as a last option, as long as I don't have to do it. After a lot of talking, we decided against it.

As for raising your voice - yes, words can definitely do even more damage than spanking, and I have in the past confronted other parents who yell at their kids in public (it didn't go very well , but at least I tried). I try to concentrate on not raising my voice at my child, and so far I have succeeded, even though its been hard at times. Knowing myself, I fear that one day I will fail and yell at her, and I can only hope that day is far in the future, and that it won't do too much damage.

PS: I still think that spanking at 17 is not only wrong on every level, but probably pointless as well...

 

[stjohnjulie]

I wouldn't say you are abusing your kids bssage. I wouldn't really say that about anyone who chooses to spank, but I will say that I personally don't do it and don't agree with it.

One thing I have noticed...with my godson, he is used to being slapped quite a bit. He is young, only 2, and I have a VERY hard time controlling him because I won't hit him. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only thing that he will respond to now. And you see, I think that just sucks.

 

[Jeremy+3]

I do think words can cause a great deal of harm, so we don't shout at our children or use nasty/degrading language to tell them off, we don't when my wife and I argue either.

I personally don't believe there is ever a reasonable reason to hit a child, and I think the only reason to use violence to control an adult would be in cases of true self defense.

I know other people don't agree with this, but thats fine, it doesn't really bother me, we aren't here to appease everyone after all.

Obviously our children still don't enjoy being punished, Jack used to claim we were denying his human rights by taking his game boy away

 

[NancyM]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, NO ONE knows for sure if he gets pleasure out of spanking his 17 yr old daughter or not. I just believe he does.

If she still does all these things like sneaking out, lying, and everything else normal teens do that we hate, ..than spanking isn't working. Can he see that? Why does he continue to use that particular form of discipline.

May I ask you if you ever witnessed him 'spank' her. I'm just wondering what ritual he uses. The amount of 'Thought' that goes into it, raises the question to me, that perhaps he looks forward to it. This fascinates me more than the fact that people think it's ok to hit other people. I hope I'm not offending you, but you did ask our opinion.

When I was 17, I had large breasts, pubic hair and was told by many guys including grown men, that I had a nice A$$. I was a sexual being. My parents told me that no one should touch me in those places. My butt was a private part of my body. As I taught my son, "These are your Privates, you have a right to say no if someone touches you in an uncomfortable way there"

I think most of us were told this, so when her own father crosses that line, by touching her butt, what do you think it tells her? I'm just curious.

Hitting a grown 17 yr old young woman on the butt, takes concentration, and deliberate thought. It's not like smacking her in the face, or slapping her legs, which is bad enough, the place he 'chooses' to hit her is on one of her sexually private places.

Pardon my frankness, but it's the only way I can explain how I mean this.

 

[NancyM]

Spanking is not good no matter the age.
Spanking should be outlawed.

When I was a child I was often beaten by my father.
I can't have a pleasant memory about it.

I'm sorry you were beaten as a child Tiberiu, and I agree with you that hitting/spanking a child should be outlawed.

 

[Maria]

I do not have kids of my own, but I do plan on spanking my children when I finally manage to have kids. But still, 17 is WAY too old to be spanked! At that age she is practically an adult and spanking a 17 year old girl seems kind of... sexual... to me, especially if it is the father doing it. Plus, this is very demeaning to the daughter cause she is a young adult. If he does not treat her and punish her like a young adult, then she will not act like a young adult. I would go so far as to say I expect the daughter resents her father for still treating her like a kid in that department. The dynamics of that relationship must be... interesting.

I would say the age at which you stop spanking would vary from child to child. I know some friends where spanking stopped being effective when they were just seven. They would just do whatever they wanted cause the pain of being spanked only lasted for a few seconds, so it was worth it to them (this is literally what my friends told me). The parents had to start taking away toys and stuff, and that worked a thousand times better as a punishment than spanking. For me, my parents stopped spanking when I was 12 because they felt I was then too old to be spanked. I personally agree with my parents. I feel teens are too old to be spanked because at that age they are maturing into young adults and as such need to be treated as such. They are old enough to understand more complex consequences and the punishment needs to better fit with the crime so they are taught better reasoning skills and understand how consequences work in the real world.

Plus, an adult male, father or not, spanking a young physically maturing teen girl is just sort of... creepy alert.

 

[Maria]

I am positive. The dude is real strict but not getting sexual arousal. Out of everyone I know this is the last guy that I would ever accuse of that. He just wants so bad to get her on track that he just now what else to do.

I don't know about every time that she gets in trouble but he doesn't just spank her for getting a C on her report card or missing curfew by 15 minutes.

One time that I know of that he spanked her was about a month ago he caught her sneaking into the house at like 5 am or something like that and she stank of booze and drover herself home. Then tried to lie about it. I wouldn't have handled it the same way but he panicked and no he didn't spank her bare butt but he did spank her.

He is a recovering drug/alchohol addict who has been sober for about 12 years. Also his ex-wife (his daughters mother) is always in and out of prison for drug related offenses. His best friend (My step-brother) died because he and my bro-in-law were drunk and speeding on their motorcycles at night and my step-brother left behind 2 daughters and a wife. This is what caused my bro-in-law to straighten up.

My bro-in-law is just so scared that his daughter will make the same mistakes as himself and is ex-wife that he takes discipline to an extreme that I don't agree with but I do understand where he is coming from and again he is not doing it for sexual arousal.

This sounds like something that cannot be solved by the father alone. The daughter is more than likely acting out due to years of deep seeded emotions. The father should get counseling for his daughter and perhaps after his daughter has some sessions, join her to better learn how to communicate with his daughter. I bet the counselor can even guide him on some different ways to more appropriately punish his daughter. But even so, if the daughter tackles her emotional skeletons with the counselor, I bet she'll act out less.

 

[singledad]

This sounds like something that cannot be solved by the father alone. The daughter is more than likely acting out due to years of deep seeded emotions. The father should get counseling for his daughter and perhaps after his daughter has some sessions, join her to better learn how to communicate with his daughter. I bet the counselor can even guide him on some different ways to more appropriately punish his daughter. But even so, if the daughter tackles her emotional skeletons with the counselor, I bet she'll act out less.

I agree 100% with this. I don't think there are many teenagers who are afraid of punishment. I know that when I was that age... if I was grounded, I'd sneak out. If I got detention, I'd refuse to attend. If I got suspended - yay! no school! etc etc. By 17, a child won't obey the rules out of fear for their parents anymore. By then they should begin to understand why there are rules, and why certain rules have to be obeyed. It should be about responsibility and self-respect, not about avoiding punishment.

If she doesn't have enough self-respect, and sense of responsibility to stop doing something after the dangers have been explained to her, then councilling would be my next step.

Teenagers don't act out for no reason, and you don't punish someone for being confused and unhappy - you help them.

 

[Rooviemaker]

Certainly you should stop when they're bigger than you. Or you might find yourself on the other end of the raised hand. : )

 

[PurpleHaze]

How about you don't even start in the first place. I mean you people have such a double standard. How would you like it if every time you broke the law, someone would come and assault you on your private parts. You would not like it. I can't believe how stupid some parents can be. If you are not intelligent to solve a problem without resorting to violence then you should not be raising the future of our society.

 

[willow44]

My So has never spanked his boys...and one definately needs it...I still believe in it.

 

[void]

Why shouldn't even spank a kid in the first place. How would you like it if everytime you broke the law, someone would come and assault you on your private parts.

Honestly if you are not smart enough to solve a conflict without resorting to violence (especially on a defenceless kid) then you shouldn't be raising the future of our society.

So to answer your question. The time you should stop spanking is right now.