cybele said:
Now I don't know how it is for men, I haven't personally experienced that, so I can't speak on that,
I'm just going to address this first, because I was there and my memory of my childhood is much clearer than I gather is normal.
Note that I am speaking almost purely from my own personal experience, and the experiences of those around me at that time. Which means, yes, that I actually did all these things as a boy.
Before puberty, if you have sex, no big deal. (From a little boy's perspective.) It's a kind of play, with the added benefit of being physically pleasurable. But that's all it is. It's just play, it's not the most important thing in a relationship, it's not even in the top 3 most of the time. (For me, those were "personality", followed by "looks" and "convenience".) Most importantly, you never feel like you need it, and you can always say no. You can say no just as easily as if you were being asked to play catch.
Puberty takes all those things and throws them out the window. Sex has gone from feeling "really" good to "OHMYGODIHADNOIDEA" good, but if a boy of that age doesn't have the resources to manage his urges or the resolve to control them, he REALLY shouldn't know that. It's better than it ever was before or ever will be, and with that all the fun dies. Sex isn't fun anymore, it's now suddenly serious business. If you have sex at this time, it will feel so good you will never want to stop. Then, if you hit a dry spell, you'll crave it more and more, and your standards will plummet on everything that used to be more important than sex. You'll find yourself going to great lengths for it, doing it with girls normally too hideous to make contact with, or ingratiating yourself to skeezy little bitches you normally wouldn't tolerate long enough to ask the time of day. It's also why some boys of this age (thankfully, I was not in their number) willingly have sex with a teacher or other adult, because you can't get laid any other way, they talk you into it once and then you just can't say no anymore.
I'm assuming I don't need to point out the problems with that. I had it easier than most boys I knew, because I knew a number of girls who wanted it just as much as I did and were willing to it with me. The girl who was to become Sam's adoptive mother being the foremost amongst them, my girlfriend more than half the time, and somebody I knew from elementary and genuinely cared for. (And a tomboy, I might add. She enjoyed fighting and rough-housing, video games and action films. And although not the prettiest girl I ever met, she was up there.)
Eventually, the hormones die down, the pleasure decreases and your urges diminish from "crushing need" to "burning desire" and eventually fade from your mind entirely when it's not an immediate concern. Sex isn't as pleasurable anymore, but that's fine because it's not as serious and you can have fun with it. You'll never feel that overwhelming rush of pleasure again, but that's the price you pay for being able to say "no" again.
Well, because she is not a grown woman.
Here is where I am coming from with this.
- I was once a 12 year old girl and I am now a grown woman
- I have raised a 12yr old girl who is now a grown woman
- I am very close to a niece who was once a 12yr old girl and is now a woman
- I have two girls, one on either side of 12 (well, for two more weeks at least, then I have a 12yr old and a 14yr old)
- I am very close to two nieces who are both 12yr old girls
I have a little bit of experience with 12yr old girls.
So do I, I just never was one myself and I was in their same age bracket. Not all girls react the way you describe, and the ones I went out with (I looked for a particular personality type, commonly known as the "tomboy") reacted to puberty in much the way I did. I've had long, unpleasant (to me) talks on this subject with Sam, and it sounds like she (also a tomboy in everything but appearance) had a similar reaction, although to lesser degree.
Yes all 12yr old girls are different and mature at different rates but there isn't one who is hormonally, emotionally, mentally or sexually where a full grown woman is.
The same urges does not imply the same reaction, but alright, if you want to play that game, they do have the same "TYPE" of urges, even if not the exact same ones.
To label a 12yr old as being at that point is selling her short because, you know what, 12yr old have it pretty rough in terms of changes that are happening to them, once you hit adulthood it's a lot easier.
Oh, I know. I really, really know. I was there, driving myself insane, staying up crazy hours, missing sleep several nights in a row, wishing puberty didn't ruin my sleep schedule and have me crashing on my desk at school. I've been there.
At 12 your hormones are all over the shop. Sometimes the strangest things make you cry, sometimes every single person you walk past is the most attractive person you have ever seen, sometimes your body does these things that you never knew were things, sometimes you feel really self conscious and you don't know why,
Everybody knows and acknowledges this. (Except for those "teenagers are just evil" codgers, and frankly **** them.) Moving on.
sometimes you get urges BUT you lack the mental capacity to act on them in a manner that is beneficial to you, you think you have the mental capacity, but in hindsight you don't and if those around you shake it off and pretend that you have it, then you end up screwing yourself over.
It isn't about mental capacity at all. It's about the inconsistency of these urges. I have never met a girl who was not smarter then than she was as an adult. I'm including the basket cases here, as even they were smarter (if not as stable) then as adults. Adulthood doesn't bring any degree of intelligence, it just implies experience (which even that isn't always the case) and stability.
It's the opposite extreme to pretending that those urges don't exist and an extreme is never beneficial.
But if you deny those urges, you're doing just as bad. The best thing is to acknowledge and work with them cautiously, and think before you act. FORCE yourself to think if that's what you have to do. I was really good at this, and I'm doing my damnedest to convey that to Sam.
...but the sexual urges a developing girl has are not the same sexual urges a woman has. The teenage ones are all over the place and ruled by crazy hormones and frankly,
Crazy, yes. Wrong, no. Most kids lack in resolve and have a hard time controlling themselves. Resolve is just one of those things that comes with experience and success, and it closely related to confidence. Adults have more experience, in this and other things, so they tend to be more confident and have better resolve. Resolve is also, however, something that can be built.
when you do act on them they are no where as fulfilling as adult ones, simply because they are crazy teenage hormone urges.
This doesn't make any sense.
In hindsight, the significant improvement that comes along there is probably just a reward for sticking out the hormonal shitstorm that is puberty.
See above.
Oh, by the way, your breasts and menstrual cycle also suck as a teenager. Another one of those hindsight things.
Breasts I'm not sure about. When I was a kid most of the girls I was with were thrilled to get them, very proud (however much sense that makes) of them and loved to show them off. Even now, Sam talks about them way more than I'd like. (What I'd like is if they were just never mentioned. But of course, I can't get that now can I?) Pubic hair sucks, it's something I refused to accept when I was a kid, and I'm sure that's the case for girls as well. The menstrual cycle ALWAYS sucks, by the word of every female I have ever talked to, ever, without even a single exception, full stop.
So no, I don't believe that she has the same urges as a grown woman.
UGH.