Clothes and dancing...

[umb24]

There you go...answer.

Well that wasn't directed at you. But I get it, you're the unconcerned parent, the cool parent, maybe if you sit back and do nothing or say nothing everything will be just fine kind of parent. That's fine, whatever.

Simply pointing out that every generation parents are concerned, is a fire blanket argument. That is not comparing Elvis to Lil Wayne, and this IS the same place, just a different time. And I think because you obviously didn't live in the day and age where they didn't sell women's trousers, you have no place to say what it was <I>really</I> like when that change came about. Quite frankly, I think points like that are greatly exaggerated from the truth.

I think we <I>did </I>know Elvis would be a legend, just like we know Lil Wayne will go down in history as probably a legend of pop music as well, lord knows why, but it's fairly obvious given his tremendous success.

And again, what does that have to do with my point really? Enough about the digression already. Look at the fact, and go from that. Look at those lyrics Testing posted and <I>realize </I>that that kind of message is prevalent in today's pop music aimed at young women. Speak for that fact, and compare that to pop music of the olden days.

 

[umb24]

That is not sass, that is a statement and a fact. Trust me, you would have an issue with the music I play in my house.

Sorry I don't believe you are 'nothing' like your parents. you may have chosen to not follow their path but that doesn't negate the impact they had on your life.

As for music, you are right. I choose to not make an issue of lyrics and instead use them as teachable moments. Same for video games...dancing isn't an issue cause my children lack any real rhythm, unless a mosh pit counts and I doubt it.

I'm sure I would have a problem with it. It's stupid. When there are forms of art and expression that are tasteful, there also stupid ones made by stupid people who don't know how to do anything but curse, and promote violence, or sell sex. They lack talent. Brain dead media for the brain dead consumers. Not making any accusations, just putting my honest two cents out there.

 

[singledad]

Umb

What do you propose as a resolution to this issue??

Just for a moment lets think that everyone agrees. What is next??

Care to answer this question, Umb?

 

[cybele]

Now that I am actually at a computer, I can give a more lengthy response.

In regards to the "Elvis thing" (which, I didn't initially bring up, so I'm not sure why I am being drilled to explain it fully) it has NOTHING to do with actual content of words. It has to do with shocking and pushing the envelope, and recognising what is left to push.

Like Singledad said, the waltz was shocking in it's time, all that touching between males and females, to jump ahead to the next example that was given, then Elvis came along and his hips swinging and lyrics that were suggestive at the time shocked, because it was something that had not been pushed before, jump ahead a but further and that isn't shocking any more, so we went to the mohawks, blatantly singing about sex and drugs, and once we all got used to that, we had to find something to shock even further, so we end up with what we have today.

And that is how the two relate, because at the time they were pushing something unacceptable, we are just desensitised to it now.

In regards to my personal beliefs on the matter. It's there, it's not going away, I'm not a fan of this style of music, but there are lots of things that I don't like that exist, and music with derogatory language towards women or songs about how big one's penis is is no exception.

In my role as a person I can do one of two things:

1. Not listen to it
2. Listen to it

Generally, I pick number one.

In my role as mother, however, I can do one of three things:

1. Blare it in my home and be blasé about it
2. Shelter my children under a big rock at all times and just hope that they don't go out in the world as young adults and want to make up for all that sheltering (which may or may not happen, depending on the individual child themselves)
3. Accept that it exists, and that throughout the course of their lives, my children will be exposed to it, because I have no desire to shelter them from the world around them and allow it as a very small part of our lives, discuss it and actually get my children to think about it.

I attempt, wholeheartedly to do option 3, because I believe that in my life, in my children's lives and in our overall situation, it is the option that is most beneficial.

 

[Mom2all]

I agree that trying to completely control what your kids are listening to is a waste of time. To start with, most of them are listening on their head phones now and even knowing whats being pounded in their ears beat by beat is impossible. Some of it, I think is stupid sounding. Some of it is offensive to me as a women. Some of it I shock them by knowing the words and singing along. If its stupid sounding.. I let it go. One particular case I can remember telling my son to remove it from computer and MP3 was something in regards to f%$#ing with bi$%# with a flash light. That was over the top for me.

Grandma definitely thought Elvis was a bad influence. What, with all that hip action. My Dad thought Madonna and Prince were going to ruin me and yet he bought me concert tickets to go and see my favorite bands. And he sings blue grass so our style in music deferred quite a bit. My daughters version of a love song differs from mine and thats okay.

Dancing.. I'm kinda like Mom2Many.. we all let the music move us.. it moves us ugly and with no real rhythm but move us it does. Some in mosh style.. some with a hand on a hip.. and some I have no idea what its even supposed to be. Its just that bad. I think its part of the fun.. the diversity. You should see my version of the worm. The kids love it.

At 5 years old.. a parent has and should use control of whats pumped into their kids brains. Teen years.. its nearly impossible. So I get in line with everyone else here.. if there is a solution on what to do about stopping the progression of time and change.. what is it?

 

[BabyAngel]

Why is it that this "natural progression" only started about 100 years ago ? In the whole humankind history, if every generation had pushed it a little further than the previous, we'd be in a heck of a worse situation than we are now !!

Perhaps there is a certain cycle of things, it's known that there have been eras where sex was all over the place (think the romans with their orgies as an exemple).

Just wondering!!??!!??

 

[bssage]

Why is it that this "natural progression" only started about 100 years ago ? In the whole humankind history, if every generation had pushed it a little further than the previous, we'd be in a heck of a worse situation than we are now !!

Perhaps there is a certain cycle of things, it's known that there have been eras where sex was all over the place (think the romans with their orgies as an exemple).

Just wondering!!??!!??

Good question. IDK But my guess would be that it is a process. Not the same but maybe similar in structure to the grieving process. Denial, anger, grief, acceptance. Not the same but similar that there are components to the push of normalcy to a limit then establishing what the new normal will be. A process

I think there has been misunderstanding that we are comparing Elvis to Lil Whatever his name is. Were not. What I believe most are saying is that in Elvis time parents were likely saying the same thing as we are now. Which is "when will it end?" "how deep does the rabbit hole go?" Which is an unanswerable question.

I also think the choices are:

To swim against the current. In which case you drown.

Use the current to to carry you to safety. Which I think is the popular opinion.

Or just let the current carry you where it will. Which I don't see anyone advocating.

I am really not seeing much debate here. If there is debate its probably more about the amount of energy we put into something that is outside of our control.

I also believe that the OP is not answering direct questions because qualifying themselves will expose the thread for what it is. A blog. And that the attempt to cast dispersions on the posters replying to the thread by accusing us of "name calling" or "sassing" or "creating guilt" Is an obvious effort to hide a lack of substance.

The only mention of resolution is that we are the parents. Our power is absolute. Kids have to do what we tell them. So tell them to stop.

Which I believe answers my questions.

 

[mom2many]

Why is it that this "natural progression" only started about 100 years ago ? In the whole humankind history, if every generation had pushed it a little further than the previous, we'd be in a heck of a worse situation than we are now !!

Perhaps there is a certain cycle of things, it's known that there have been eras where sex was all over the place (think the romans with their orgies as an exemple).

Just wondering!!??!!??

Good question, and not one I have an answer for. I think somethings just happen..no rhyme, no reason, they just are. If that makes any sense.

 

[bssage]

Why is it that this "natural progression" only started about 100 years ago ? In the whole humankind history,

I am thinking it has always happened. I imagine at some point the Neanderthals were sitting around the fire talking about how M2M was prancing around standing upright.

Neanderthal # 1 "Uuhggg" gestering toward m2m.

Neanderthal # 2 "Ummrg" (Neanderthal word meaning easy cave woman)

:jimlad:

 

[cybele]

I am thinking it has always happened. I imagine at some point the Neanderthals were sitting around the fire talking about how M2M was prancing around standing upright.

Neanderthal # 1 "Uuhggg" gestering toward m2m.

Neanderthal # 2 "Ummrg" (Neanderthal word meaning easy cave woman)

:jimlad:

Best thing written on this thread.

 

[umb24]

Now that I am actually at a computer, I can give a more lengthy response.

In regards to the "Elvis thing" (which, I didn't initially bring up, so I'm not sure why I am being drilled to explain it fully) it has NOTHING to do with actual content of words. It has to do with shocking and pushing the envelope, and recognising what is left to push.

Like Singledad said, the waltz was shocking in it's time, all that touching between males and females, to jump ahead to the next example that was given, then Elvis came along and his hips swinging and lyrics that were suggestive at the time shocked, because it was something that had not been pushed before, jump ahead a but further and that isn't shocking any more, so we went to the mohawks, blatantly singing about sex and drugs, and once we all got used to that, we had to find something to shock even further, so we end up with what we have today.

And that is how the two relate, because at the time they were pushing something unacceptable, we are just desensitised to it now.

Okay, I understand that. I agree. But you also just made <I>my </I>point there as well that everyone seems to be ignoring. With desensitization. Is that honestly a good quality to instill into those who we are bringing up, who will be in charge of things when we're dead and gone? Is it <I>okay</I> that we just don't even seem to care about these things anymore? Seriously? Well, I think it's not okay. I think there's a point where we say enough is enough. If there were ever a cause for alarm, it is now.

In regards to my personal beliefs on the matter. It's there, it's not going away, I'm not a fan of this style of music, but there are lots of things that I don't like that exist, and music with derogatory language towards women or songs about how big one's penis is is no exception.

In my opinion, the reason these things do not go away, is because we don't seem to care. We're apathetic, or we're afraid to be seen as overprotective.

If these things we not given support, <I>they would not be possible</I>. They would not be in the mainstream media. We make it okay, it's us and us alone. It's the fact that no one wants to speak up and say "hey, this is wrong", because they fear they'll sound like <I>their</I> parents did. And maybe there was some truth behind what their parents were saying, and now I think there so definitely <I>is</I>.

In my role as mother, however, I can do one of three things:

1. Blare it in my home and be blasé about it
2. Shelter my children under a big rock at all times and just hope that they don't go out in the world as young adults and want to make up for all that sheltering (which may or may not happen, depending on the individual child themselves)
3. Accept that it exists, and that throughout the course of their lives, my children will be exposed to it, because I have no desire to shelter them from the world around them and allow it as a very small part of our lives, discuss it and actually get my children to think about it.

I attempt, wholeheartedly to do option 3, because I believe that in my life, in my children's lives and in our overall situation, it is the option that is most beneficial.

See my approach is somewhere between 2 and 3. I don't think kids have to be exposed to it, and I'm also not afraid to tell them what I think about it. I'm also not afraid to do a little sheltering where necessary. This is just as my parents did when I was a kid. In retrospect, I feel like they did a good job with me. They taught us respect of others, to always question things that don't seem right, to recognize ugliness when we see it, and to do the right thing. And for the record, I do not come from a religious family as I'm sure that's probably weighing on your and others mind right now.

Some of my childhood friends on the other hand, ended up differently where their parents simply didn't seem to care what they were into. They ended up hooked on drugs and shacking up and getting into trouble with the law instead of buckling down and being adults. Even today some of them are still like that.

 

[mom2many]

I am thinking it has always happened. I imagine at some point the Neanderthals were sitting around the fire talking about how M2M was prancing around standing upright.

Neanderthal # 1 "Uuhggg" gestering toward m2m.

Neanderthal # 2 "Ummrg" (Neanderthal word meaning easy cave woman)

:jimlad:

Dammit bssage! I told you my age in confidence!!!!


:laugh::laugh:

 

[umb24]

Why is it that this "natural progression" only started about 100 years ago ? In the whole humankind history, if every generation had pushed it a little further than the previous, we'd be in a heck of a worse situation than we are now !!

Perhaps there is a certain cycle of things, it's known that there have been eras where sex was all over the place (think the romans with their orgies as an exemple).

Just wondering!!??!!??

This is also something I often think about. How ugly and vulgar and corrupt the Roman people were said to be right before their entire empire crumbled. They had it coming to them, I think. And history repeats itself as we know. The American empire today in many ways resembles that that same cycle and that is a very good point. I honestly believe we are headed in that direction.

 

[mom2many]

Well that wasn't directed at you. But I get it, you're the unconcerned parent, the cool parent, maybe if you sit back and do nothing or say nothing everything will be just fine kind of parent. That's fine, whatever.

You know nothing about me to make that <I>ass</I>umption. Being laid back does not mean I say or do nothing. I have 8 freakin kids, what I have learned to do it pick my bottles and not to overly stress others things. Am I the cool parent to many children in the neighborhood, to some extent I am. Not because I don't have rules, but because I live in a heavy Mormon population where control in many cases is the name of the game.

I do not control my children, I guide my children. I must be doing something right, cause right now I have 4 grown children who are productive amazing members of society. I also 4 much younger children who I always get complimented on because they are thoughtful and have amazing manners.

So since you don't know me and want to throw <I>ass</I>umptions out there I will wrap up just what kind of parent I am for you...

I am a non-cio, homeschooling, vaxing, co-sleeping parent who has rules that they are expected to follow. I do not stifle their creativity, I do not try to control them. I allow them freedom of speech and freedom of expression. They are allowed to be who ever the hell it is they want to be so long as no rules or laws are broken. That is the kind of parent I am, I am a DAMN good parent.

 

[cybele]

Okay, I understand that. I agree. But you also just made <I>my </I>point there as well that everyone seems to be ignoring. With desensitization. Is that honestly a good quality to instill into those who we are bringing up, who will be in charge of things when we're dead and gone? Is it <I>okay</I> that we just don't even seem to care about these things anymore? Seriously? Well, I think it's not okay. I think there's a point where we say enough is enough. If there were ever a cause for alarm, it is now.


In my opinion, the reason these things do not go away, is because we don't seem to care. We're apathetic, or we're afraid to be seen as overprotective.

If these things we not given support, <I>they would not be possible</I>. They would not be in the mainstream media. We make it okay, it's us and us alone. It's the fact that no one wants to speak up and say "hey, this is wrong", because they fear they'll sound like <I>their</I> parents did. And maybe there was some truth behind what their parents were saying, and now I think there so definitely <I>is</I>.


See my approach is somewhere between 2 and 3. I don't think kids have to be exposed to it, and I'm also not afraid to tell them what I think about it. I'm also not afraid to do a little sheltering where necessary. This is just as my parents did when I was a kid. In retrospect, I feel like they did a good job with me. They taught us respect of others, to always question things that don't seem right, to recognize ugliness when we see it, and to do the right thing. And for the record, I do not come from a religious family as I'm sure that's probably weighing on your and others mind right now.

Some of my childhood friends on the other hand, ended up differently where their parents simply didn't seem to care what they were into. They ended up hooked on drugs and shacking up and getting into trouble with the law instead of buckling down and being adults. Even today some of them are still like that.

Religion was never on my mind...

I believe that every individual is different, personally I had VERY strict, sheltering parents and I ended up obtaining money for forbidden things through prositution, I'm not proud of that, but it happened.

In the end, I have to look at my kids and see what type of individuals they are, one I could probably shelter and she would never be curious, the other four would aim for the forbidden fruit, so education is the key for them.

On the topic of the existance of such music, I recognise that things that I, personaly, do not like, still have a right to exist. There is clearly a market, and I am not queen of the universe.

 

[akmom]

Perhaps there is a certain cycle of things, it's known that there have been eras where sex was all over the place (think the romans with their orgies as an exemple).

I think this is a good point, because it IS cyclic. Decadence follows abundance. When basic needs are met, extravagance is what sells. And in a competitive market, you have to keep selling what is more extravagant. It is simply what is next on the pyramid of human needs. Eventually this does come to a climax, and society reverses the trend. When Rome fell, society entered the "Dark Ages" where violent entertainment, obscene art and decadence were no longer desired. Food and security were the "best sellers" of the day, and suddenly people were willing to work hard on the manors to obtain it. As we leave a period of abundance, society will also back away from decadence, and start to value those things with long-term benefits: hard work, education, family.

Even now, in response to the recession, people are backing down from decadence and valuing more practical things. Take a look at Abercrombie &amp; Fitch's sales. Sapna Maheshwari did an excellent article in Bloomberg Businessweek called, "When sex no longer sells." Changes in attitude really do seem tied to the economy.

 

[bssage]

AK is hitting them out of the park today:notworthy:

 

[umb24]

You know nothing about me to make that <I>ass</I>umption. Being laid back does not mean I say or do nothing. I have 8 freakin kids, what I have learned to do it pick my bottles and not to overly stress others things. Am I the cool parent to many children in the neighborhood, to some extent I am. Not because I don't have rules, but because I live in a heavy Mormon population where control in many cases is the name of the game.

I do not control my children, I guide my children. I must be doing something right, cause right now I have 4 grown children who are productive amazing members of society. I also 4 much younger children who I always get complimented on because they are thoughtful and have amazing manners.

So since you don't know me and want to throw <I>ass</I>umptions out there I will wrap up just what kind of parent I am for you...

I am a non-cio, homeschooling, vaxing, co-sleeping parent who has rules that they are expected to follow. I do not stifle their creativity, I do not try to control them. I allow them freedom of speech and freedom of expression. They are allowed to be who ever the hell it is they want to be so long as no rules or laws are broken. That is the kind of parent I am, I am a DAMN good parent.

Did you just italicize the "ass" in assumption? Very classy. Really helps in taking you seriously. A prime example of how if you have a difference with someone else, you can resort to name calling! Because that solves things!

 

[mom2many]

Did you just italicize the "ass" in assumption? Very classy. Really helps in taking you seriously. A prime example of how if you have a difference with someone else, you can resort to name calling! Because that solves things!

Whether or not you take me seriously has little, if any, importance on my life. If you step back a little...you started with the insults. I, on the other hand will not now or ever have my character judged by someone who has only been on this site long enough to post two judgmental posts.

How am I supposed to take you seriously when you never introduced yourself, have never even stated if you had children or taken the time to really get to know anyone here.

On this site there are a handful of people that I count as friends. Their opinions matter to me, even our different opinions matter to me. You on the other hand do not.

 

[umb24]

Whether or not you take me seriously has little, if any, importance on my life. If you step back a little...you started with the insults. I, on the other hand will not now or ever have my character judged by someone who has only been on this site long enough to post two judgmental posts.

How am I supposed to take you seriously when you never introduced yourself, have never even stated if you had children or taken the time to really get to know anyone here.

On this site there are a handful of people that I count as friends. Their opinions matter to me, even our different opinions matter to me. You on the other hand do not.

If you don't take this seriously, don't bother. If you don't like me or I apparently don't matter to you, then stop quoting my conversations with other people and trying to but yourself into them. Nobody is making you. Just stop.

I never insult anybody, I speak my mind without personally attacking anyone, and what it is is that some people simply cannot handle honesty.