Gay parents...

should Gay people be allowe to adopt children...

  • Yes...

    Votes: 39 76.5%
  • No...

    Votes: 8 15.7%
  • Yes, with exceptions...

    Votes: 4 7.8%

  • Total voters
    51

Aunt

PF Fanatic
Nov 4, 2007
672
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47
I am actually s fence sitter on this issue. On one hand i believe in equal rights for all. I am pro gay marriage so should probably be pro gay adoption. I certainly dont think that sexuality determines the ability for anyone to be a good parent, But...
I am still concerned that the kids would be the brunt of cruelty and exclusion because of their parent's choice to adopt. I am not sure if this is fair on the kids. i realize that the only way to overcome prejudice is to confront it but it seems a lot to ask of a child.
Jordy has your family found and prejudice directed toward it in this regard?
 

Jordy

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Apr 12, 2010
642
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Perth, WA
very small amounts of prejudice.. mostly we live in a gay friendly area and Australia is actually quite a gay friendly country so we haven't had too many problems. i am worried a little for when they start school about being bullied or i have heard people say things like they wouldn't want there child to go to a house where the parents were both male.. which does not make any sense to me at all..

i think it's because there is still a bit of a stigma around homosexual men that we are sexual deviants or pedophiles (clearly not the case) but it is just people not understanding us rather than that being the case. if there were more education saying it is natural rather than a chosen path i feel that the world would be more accepting.
 

AmyBelle

PF Fiend
Apr 20, 2008
1,252
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Australia
Aunt said:
I
I am still concerned that the kids would be the brunt of cruelty and exclusion because of their parent's choice to adopt. I am not sure if this is fair on the kids. i realize that the only way to overcome prejudice is to confront it but it seems a lot to ask of a child.
Referencing a thread I made a long time ago

http://www.parentingforums.org/f16/vent-9506.html

Yeah, it happens. Granted, that happened to me an odd 25 years ago, but there is also a recent act on there. Some people are assholes. Enough said.

I dont blame my fathers for that at all and I dont think that people who lack so much compassion that they cant keep their mouthes shut for the sake of a child should effect the argument on adoption. It should however start a new argument about small minded individuals and cruelty to children (aswell as maybe school's getting in on it and saying "hey, you know what, this is okay"
 

Jordy

PF Fanatic
Apr 12, 2010
642
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Perth, WA
I'm glad to hear that you have no blame or your fathers because that was my main worry that there wouldn't the the best reception to it and they would blame us for it..
 

Mom2all

PF Fiend
Nov 25, 2009
1,317
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Eastern North Carolina, USA
There are thousands of children in need of a safe and loving home that would be quite happy to be taken care of by people who want them. I seriously doubt that sexual orientation, race or anything else of so little importance matters to them. I judge people by their character not their bedroom choices.
 

JM47

PF Regular
Apr 16, 2010
50
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kdryan said:
IMHO, homosexuality is a fact of nature. Many species display the trait. It is there in nature. However, those species don't go out of their way to make it the norm. They do not try to make the entire species think that what they're doing is the way nature intended it. When it comes time for raising the little chimpanzees or the little penguins or puppies or whatever, it is a male/female relationship that is relied upon.
That is not actually a good comparison -- in most species, parental investment is limited to the mothers -- the fathers could care less about their offspring.

As for the discussion of the causes of homosexuality, very large studies with twins and adoptees (behavioral genetic studies) have shown that (as with most other behavior traits), 50% of the variation in sexual orientation is genetic. Though this leaves a considerable non-genetic component to sexual orientation, this still doesn't imply "choice" per se -- various non-genetic factors can still lead to fairly deterministic outcomes, such as developmental noise (e.g., identical twins don't have the same fingerprints) or perhaps even viruses. In any case, the science is pretty clear that sexual orientation is an innate trait.

kdryan said:
For the entire 30,000 years history of man, the mommy/daddy relationship has been the way of raising a child.
Actually, modern humans have been around closer to 160,000 years. And while it's clear that homosexuality has a considerable genetic component, it's admittedly not so clear <I>why</I> this is the case; it's not clear <I>why</I> the trait persists in the population. But it's certainly not unique to humans, found in many animal species -- even predominant in some (check out our closest relatives, the bonobos). And I seriously doubt it's some sort of "mistake" of nature -- if anything I would believe quite the opposite. There is a growing belief today in the science of human evolution that many minority traits have been selected <I>for</I> in the course of human evolution. They were selected for, it is thought, because they serve some function that benefits the species as a whole -- that is human populations benefits from having certain "unusual" individuals around (to fill niche roles or in case of calamities, for example). This is not limited to homosexuals, but includes other personality types that exist in significant minorities, (and no offense is intended to anyone) including the exceptionally talented (geniuses, savants), the depraved (psychopaths), and even certain mental disorders (such as bipolarity or schizophrenia).

kdryan said:
Only in the last 20 years or so has it become fashionable to be otherwise. Can you really accept such a rapid change without question?
Maybe we should ask the ancient Greeks and Romans?

kdryan said:
But I happen to think that a family is better off with a mommy and a daddy, not a mommy and a mommy or a daddy and a daddy. I don't believe in gay marriage.
In reality, it turns out that parents' sexuality matters little to their children's development. Decades of research has shown that, all things held equal, children turn out the same if they have two parents of opposite sex, two of the same sex, one parent of either sex, in the conservative nuclear family or in a hippie commune or an Israeli kibbutz. The Ozzie-and-Harriet, mom, pop and kids is far from necessarily the "normal" or "natural" home environment for children. For the bulk of human history, the "normal" home unit consisted of a man, his multiple wives and their children. Parental death was also more common in the past than it is today, so children had to often suffice with just one parent or neither. And in many societies today, children live in extended families with not just their siblings but their cousins and their parents, and the grandparents as well.

The bottom line is that there is no rational basis for denying same sex couples the right to adopt children, as long as they care well for the child and provide for him/her -- the same we would expect from heterosexual couples. The issue of gay adoption is really a matter of lingering homophobia and, at best, misguided concern for the children they might adopt, ignoring the challenges faced by those children who go without loving homes.
 

JM47

PF Regular
Apr 16, 2010
50
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0
I have read the whole thread. I made my post only to address the specific claims you had made in earlier posts. There are some facts underlying this issue, and if we are to have a debate about the subject, it is best that it is as informed and factual as possible, would you not agree?
 

kdryan

PF Fanatic
Jan 2, 2009
409
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Fort Wayne, In
Do as you will. I've said my part, and you can take it as a whole or not. The debate is for someone else and I am respectfully keeping out of it from here forward. You are addressing statements that have already been debated and resolved.

As I said, If you can find someone to love and loves you in this screwed up age, knock yourself out. You can't do much worse than a lot of people out there now.
 

bssage

Super Moderator
Oct 20, 2008
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Iowa
certainly not unique to humans, found in many animal species
My dog is a couchasexual, stuffed animalsexual. and human legasexual. I think it was his environment.
 

Aunt

PF Fanatic
Nov 4, 2007
672
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47
AmyBelle said:
Referencing a thread I made a long time ago

http://www.parentingforums.org/f16/vent-9506.html

Yeah, it happens. Granted, that happened to me an odd 25 years ago, but there is also a recent act on there. Some people are assholes. Enough said.

I dont blame my fathers for that at all and I dont think that people who lack so much compassion that they cant keep their mouthes shut for the sake of a child should effect the argument on adoption. It should however start a new argument about small minded individuals and cruelty to children (aswell as maybe school's getting in on it and saying "hey, you know what, this is okay"
This is the real dilemma for me. That there are in some parts of the world that bigoted. And you cant say gay ppl can adopt in this part of the country because it's citizens are nicer than here because they are jerks. I can remember reading about a lesbian couple who faced the choice of moving from their bigoted town but did not want to because their kid's father lived there and the kids saw him on weekends. But their kid was excluded from birthday parties that involved the rest of the class and other things that just seemed to me horrible. I know in my own family when there was debate over who should take my niece after she was orphaned my brother looked at it (he is gay) but decided this could be an issue and we didnt want to risk it.
 

Jordy

PF Fanatic
Apr 12, 2010
642
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Perth, WA
well, we chose our area carefully and we live in a very gay friendly area, we wouldn't adopt children if we were in a small town or if we were the only gay people we knew of in the area because it would be too hard on them. but as a rule people are mostly just afraid of the un known/.. when people meet us and see that we don't walk around with our hands in unusual poses calling everyone "darling" and wearing woman's clothing they tend to forget the stereotypes and just think of us as Jordan and Andrew instead of "the gay couple down the street" just us existing here is aiding to educate our community in tolerance and respect
 

bssage

Super Moderator
Oct 20, 2008
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When it comes to intelligence half the people you meet are below average.

My dog is half stupid, the other half farts.
 

IADad

Super Moderator
Feb 23, 2009
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Jordy said:
well, we chose our area carefully and we live in a very gay friendly area, we wouldn't adopt children if we were in a small town or if we were the only gay people we knew of in the area because it would be too hard on them. but as a rule people are mostly just afraid of the un known/.. when people meet us and see that we don't walk around with our hands in unusual poses calling everyone "darling" and wearing woman's clothing they tend to forget the stereotypes and just think of us as Jordan and Andrew instead of "the gay couple down the street" just us existing here is aiding to educate our community in tolerance and respect
Your description of your neighborhood, reminded me, down the road (I live in a rural area) about the 2nd closest house to me is owned by a gay couple. My neighbor in the other direction still thinks (or won't allow himself to think any different) that they're brothers....kinda cracks me up....
 

Jordy

PF Fanatic
Apr 12, 2010
642
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Perth, WA
haha, that is hilarious.. yes we used to live in a different area and an old man down the street was convinced we were brothers but he was a very old man so we just went along with it in front of him for his benefit. we were to nice to tell him otherwise
 

ashirae

Junior Member
Apr 24, 2010
24
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Jordy said:
thank you.. the children we are adopting are not orphans though.. there birth parents are alive but were both abusive and addicted to many illegal drugs both girls are under 3 years old and have broken more bones than i have in my life because of the cruelty they were subjected to by there birth parents.. i feel that a life with my partner and i is far better for them regardless of our sexuality because we will love them and support them in every way we can which must be preferable to what they previously had.
Wow. Those poor kids! :( Then I'm really glad that there are people like you who would be able to take them out of such an abusive environment and provide them with a family that would nurture them and care for them, as they deserve. I'm sure they will grow up to be wonderful children under your care. :)
 

Sunnygirl9607

Junior Member
Apr 28, 2010
16
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Interesting topic. My view on gay lifestyle is: live and let live. People have the right to love whomever they want to love and no one deserves to be bullied and abused because of it. All people deserve basic human rights. And there are many good and talented gay people out there who deserve respect.
That said...
Most people use these same words to support gay marriage. But while I believe that people should have their private life the way they want it, marriage is a whole another issue. And I strongly believe that gays should NOT be allowed to marry. I find the idea strange and don't see the point in it.
Adoption is another issue, separate from gay marriage. Ideally, I believe that the best place for any child is a stable home with a mother and a father who care about each other and stay together. That doesn't always happen, unfortunately, and sometimes kids have to be raised by a single parent or divorced parents, or even extended family. When it comes to regular adoption, married couples should be the first in line to adopt a child, then single heterosexual people. Then gays. I can't say that gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids or have kids at all, because there can be individual circumstances and situations.
 

IADad

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Feb 23, 2009
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Jordy said:
haha, that is hilarious.. yes we used to live in a different area and an old man down the street was convinced we were brothers but he was a very old man so we just went along with it in front of him for his benefit. we were to nice to tell him otherwise
Yeah, there's no point in burting the bubble for benign old people....This also reminds me of my grandmother's story about her uncle Albert, who was a "bachelor for life" (I think that's what they called it back then ;) ). She'd say, "He had the most peculiar way of walking" (and she'd pantomime this lilting "one foot in front of the other" walk with her hands....) "I think he got that from the Indians." "He'd disappear, sometimes for a month and go live with the indians..."

I'd so much like to have heard that story from Uncle Albert's perspective....