SPANKING revisited...

[Mom2all]

Put a fence around it and lock the gate.

Yeah.. thats what my high school classmate done with their hot tub, 2 years before their 2 1/2 year old daughter drowned in it.

I spanked them when they needed it... it worked for me and mine.. they aren't in therapy.. seem to love me still and I like them all as people not just love them as a parent (well mostly ). Perhaps I was just lucky it worked well with mine so I wouldn't change it if I could.

I'm with SD.. time to move on.

 

[Caffus]

Dont know why we are talking about pools here...but no you have to watch them no matter what , even if they know how to swim...my brother knew how to swim and drowned in front of me and my brother at age 30..becuase we thought he was joking when we saw him floating.Anything CAN happen.

 

[Caffus]

About spanking...I rarely do it and my boys are out of control...they dont listen and I have to hold them when they are in a time out. Sometimes when I spank them they laugh at me..sometimes they hit me...you cant spank hard enough , legaly these days for it to be effective.

 

[tadamsmar]

I refer you to the section "THE MYTH THAT SPANKING WORKS WHEN OTHER METHODS FAIL":

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP67%20Children%20Should%20Never%20be%20Spanked.pdf[/url]

I seems that the only way that a parent could possibly convince themselves that spanking works better than other available methods is by relying on anecdotes and unsystematic observation.

 

[Caffus]

That is a lot to read, I read some and I will read more when I can....I do agree with it, so far. I never want to spank my kids. I am very confused at what I should do..becuase doing nothing doesnt work ethier, nethier do times outs..that i have to hold them it while they fight to be free.

 

[tadamsmar]

That is a lot to read, I read some and I will read more when I can....I do agree with it, so far. I never want to spank my kids. I am very confused at what I should do..becuase doing nothing doesnt work ethier, nethier do times outs..that i have to hold them it while they fight to be free.

Sounds like you are dealing with some relatively defiant kids. One problem with time-out is that kids can be defiant. You can back up timeout with withdrawal of a favorite toy or privilege for a while. I think "Kazdin Method" is a good book for learning how to deal with defiant kids. But be sure the mostly phase out the methods after the kids have established good habits, and rely as much as possible on encouragement, compromise, and getting the kids involved in problem-solving. Kazdin has a section on phasing out as the behavior improves. "Kazdin Method" is mostly focused on problem behavior in young kids.

 

[MommyMe4]

Not okay! You wouldn't spank another adult who was misbehaving and treating kids with the respect of an adult immediately handles behavior issues making them take responsibility for their actions!

 

[Caffus]

People, including kids are very complex and each is differant. I do treat my kids with love and respect...no I am not perfect, but I strive to be.
The problems are complex and are not easily fixable.
I do sometimes take away favorite toys or privelgas..like using the computer....I need to be more consistant. They some times loose there temper when i take away things they want to do...my son just hit me right now, becuase I siad he could not take a bath right now, becuase it is almost time to go pick up his brother from school.

 

[Caffus]

Now he is kicking my fish tank stand saying I want to play on the computer RIGHT NOW! Okie see you later

 

[tadamsmar]

People, including kids are very complex and each is differant. I do treat my kids with love and respect...no I am not perfect, but I strive to be.
The problems are complex and are not easily fixable.
I do sometimes take away favorite toys or privelgas..like using the computer....I need to be more consistant. They some times loose there temper when i take away things they want to do...my son just hit me right now, becuase I siad he could not take a bath right now, becuase it is almost time to go pick up his brother from school.

You need to be inconsistent. Being more consistent will get you more of the same from the kids.

 

[singledad]

You need to be inconsistent. Being more consistent will get you more of the same from the kids.

Please tell me that either this is a typo, or I am misunderstanding you.

Are you seriously PROMOTING <U>IN</U>consistency with discipline? What on earth could you possibly teach with inconsistency? <EMOJI seq="1f615"></EMOJI>

 

[cybele]

I'm a little confused by that too.

 

[tadamsmar]

A couple of my step kids and their spouses consistently engaged in counterproductive parenting methods. The results were bad. One ended up with a kid that threw such huge tantrums that the kid could not be left alone with his mom.

The other couple finally became inconsistent. They changed their methods to replace counterproductive methods with proven methods and the kid changed for the better.

Even if the parent skillfully uses methods that are known to work, I cannot think of a single parenting method that should be consistently applied from birth till adulthood. Parents need to be inconsistent. Even if they manage figure out how to skillfully use a method that is known to work, they should not stick with it because it will be ineffective or counterproductive beyond a certain age. It's not uncommon for parents to find an effective discipline method and make the mistake of using too much, overusing it after the desired habits have been established and it's no longer appropriate, using it beyond it's age limit.

 

[tadamsmar]

All effective parenting method that are skillfully applied show good results in a matter of weeks. So, if you are not finding your problems solved in a matter of weeks, it's time to be inconsistent, to try something new.

 

[singledad]

Even if the parent skillfully uses methods that are known to work, I cannot think of a single parenting method that should be consistently applied from birth till adulthood. Parents need to be inconsistent. Even if they manage figure out how to skillfully use a method that is known to work, they should not stick with it because it will be ineffective or counterproductive beyond a certain age. It's not uncommon for parents to find an effective discipline method and make the mistake of using too much, overusing it after the desired habits have been established and it's no longer appropriate, using it beyond it's age limit.

I think what you are trying to say is that

<LIST type="decimal">

1. 
   <LI>
2. parents should adapt their methods as the child grows up.</LI>
   <LI>
3. If something isn't working, try something else.</LI>

</LIST>

Now, English is not my first language, but "inconsistent" doesn't say either of these things to me. And Mirriam-Webster agrees with me:

<SIZE size="100">Definition of <I>INCONSISTENT</I></SIZE><FONT font="Verdana">: lacking consistency: as<I>
a</I> : not compatible with another fact or claim &lt;<I>inconsistent</I>statements&gt;<I>
b</I> : containing incompatible elements &lt;an <I>inconsistent</I>argument&gt;
<I>c</I> : changeable<I>
d</I> : not satisfiable by the same set of values for the unknowns &lt;<I>inconsistent</I> equations&gt; &lt;<I>inconsistent</I>inequalities&gt;

Think the word you were looking for was "flexible":

Definition of <I>FLEXIBLE</I><FONT font="Verdana"><FONT font="Verdana">
1: capable of being pliant
2[/COLOR]: yielding to influence : tractable
[/FONT][/COLOR]3[/COLOR]: characterized by a ready capability to adapt to new, different, or changing requirements &lt;a <I>flexible</I> foreign policy&gt;&lt;a <I>flexible</I> schedule&gt;
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Inconsistent parenting is what my parents did. Change the rules every day. Change the punishment for breaking a rule from one transgression to the next. Change the expectations all the time without tell the child. What is ok today, is wrong tomorrow. What is wrong today, is ok tomorrow. It is confusing, scary, and results in a child being resigned to being in trouble anyway, regardless of what he does, and so making no effort to follow any kind of rule (what's the point if the rule is going to change tomorrow?)

Flexible parenting is common sense. First - what works on a 6 year old will not work on a 16 year old. Second - you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

I know the definition of "inconsistent" may seem to be off-topic nit-picking, but if we are going to give advice, we must at least make an effort to make sure that we are giving the advice we think we are giving...

I don't think Caffus's problem is necessarily that what she does isn't working. It could be, but she can't know if what she is doing would work until she's applied it consistently for at least a week or two.

 

[tadamsmar]

You are right that I (and we) should be checking with Caffus on the circumstances of the behavior problems she is having.

My guess is it's a skills issue not a consistency issue, since that is typical of a situation where a 5 yo is still having tantrums, so different methods or at least debugging the current methods would be required. Age 5 is about 3+ years after the effective methods would have prevented any significant tantrum problems in a normal kid. But you are right that it better to explore the facts than to jump to conclusions.

 

[ikon99]

Wow, Parentastic.

I disagree with your comment on psychiatrists. "<I>they don't have a clue</I>" and "<I>some of the most serious and most prevalent disorders remain largely misunderstood, simply because almost no effort is put into understanding it..."</I>
In my expereance, and rewiew of the literature, a lot of research is put into understanding disorders of the human psyche. Such as major depressive disorders, ADD/ADHD, bipolarism. The health care community has a greater understanding of how the mind and brain work than we did 10 years ago. Do a medline or pub med search on the research that goes into understanding how our brains function.
Now... On the other hand. If a mental health care provider cannot fully explain to the patient how and explain why certain behaviors or certain personality disorders has affected them, then that is a communication issue and not a lack of understanding.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[tadamsmar]

I have never once recall seeing a situation where a parent had a conduct problem that could be solved by the parent merely becoming more consistent in doing what they were already doing.

I know parents often say or think "I need to be more consistent", but a I cannot recall a situation where that was the solution.

So, I think it's typical that thinking consistency is the solution is the same as being on the wrong track.

I don't think Caffus's problem is necessarily that what she does isn't working. It could be, but she can't know if what she is doing would work until she's applied it consistently for at least a week or two.

I think the first thing to do is to check with experts who take a scientific, evidence-oriented approach to figure out what works and how to avoid the pitfalls in using what works. In doing this, you can learn the pattern of response to expect from the kid when you start using the proven method. You can learn how long it takes to get results. For some proven methods in some situations, the behavior gets worse for a few days before it gets better. You can also learn if it's a good idea to phase out the method once it has worked and how to do that and also the age when the method become counterproductive or ineffective.

From this you can figure out how long to consistently apply the method without getting results, before you need to change or at least try to debug the method.

But, you are right that a week or two is a pretty good general rule of thumb for the period when you should be seeing results in the direction you want.

 

[tadamsmar]

Flexible parenting is common sense. First - what works on a 6 year old will not work on a 16 year old. Second - you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

There are behavior patterns that are very common in the US that are rare in Europe. The patterns caused by a large percentage of American parents who keep doing the same thing and getting the same bad results. Since these behaviors seem ubiquitous, we Americans call them "developmentally appropriate behavior'". It's all very scientific-sounding and just common sense!

When I hear the term "common sense" it sets off my alarms.

 

[Caffus]

I dont mean spanking...I have'nt spanked them at all for at least two weeks now and I dont want to do that. I mean in time outs or taking things away, but I'm going to look up the Kazdin Method...being inconsistent doesnt work, it confuses, they dont know what to expect.