Where do you live? That would NEVER happen in MS unless it was a strictly christian course.etceterae said:
Religious Discrimination...
- Thread starter etceterae
- Start date
musicmom said:See here I'm going to have to disagree. In the bible I read none of us are "unworthy". Would you say your children are unworthy of your love because they act out? No. God is our father (if you believe in him) he loves us unconditionally even with our faults.
So I would never feel unworthy of his love. I'm as worthy as they come. I'm just his troubled child.
My children are not unworthy of my love, but that is because they are my children. Just as we are God's. And I do believe that He loves us unconditionally and that we are His troubled children. However, look at it from a different standpoint....let's say your neighbor kills and molests one of your children. Then she robs your house. Then she sets it on fire. Then she spits in your face. Does crack in your car. Gossips about you continually. Is she worthy of your love? Of course not. Look at what all she's done to you.
Look at what we all do to God on a daily basis. I, for one, will admit my faults. I've smoked cigarettes, smoked pot, done cocaine, crack, acid, meth, all on a regular basis, and drank more than most men. I've fornicated while unmarried. I've stolen. I've lied. I've gossipped. I've lusted. I've cursed not only people but God Himself. The list can go on and on. I've led a very wicked and evil life. I've done more before I got saved than most people do.
I was a wicked, vile person. Had my "neighbor" or whatever done all those things to me, I would probably not want them anywhere near me. (I am, after all, human) I was unworthy of His love and His grace and His forgiveness. However, when I gave my life to Him, He washed me and I became worthy in His eyes. I still feel unworthy most days, because, well, because I fail Him every day. Often. We're all human. Salvation does not equal perfection, contrary to what some people believe. It just means we're raggly old sinners saved by grace.
Anywho....I said all that to say this. My child can do whatever (s)he wants. But the bottom line is, they are still my child and I will love them no matter the nasty things they do or have done. God loves His children, no matter what they've done. They are still worthy if they choose to be.
I dunno...I guess I meant that we should not feel worthy. Everyone is worthy...Bible says "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." That means me, you, her, him, them, the crackhead down the street, the prostitute on the corner, the murderer on death row or even, gasp, the child molester on a life-term.
I guess I didn't word it correctly. (Sorry, MM...was like 3 in the morning)
Anyway, I better end this before I start preaching or something...boy wouldn't the Baptists like that.:laugh:
Ok, now on to post what I found about Catholicism. (And before I forget, I did get that material on tongues I was mentioning the other day...when I get done here, I'll post that over there)
Let me clarify real quick....I should have said this yesterday, but, I'll be honest with you guys here. I had a moment of weakness and made generalizations I shouldn't have. I DO believe that there are some Catholics going to make it to Heaven. Just as there are some JW, Mormons, what have you, that will also make it to Heaven. And also, there are some "christians" who won't make it. My belief is that anyone who trusted Jesus Christ as their Saviour and surrendered their heart to Him is saved and will be in Heaven when their time comes. So, I apologize for any generalizations or for implying that Catholics or whatever are not going to make it to Heaven. It was not my intentions.
I'm going to copy something that I picked up while I was in church last night, then post a few things that Catholics believe that doesn't line up with Scripture. (I didn't mean to turn this into a Catholicism vs Christianity thread, and I"ll drop the matter, if you want me to, when I'm done posting this material) Anyway, here is the little bit of information I picked up while at church last night.
In the gospel of St. John, we read of the marriage feast at Cana. Here Mary emphasizes the importance of Jesus, her son, and the words that He speaks.
Realizing that the wine was gone, and that she herself could not do anything, she tells Jesus, the only One who could do something. Mary then gives the servents A COMMAND, one that we all should consider. "His mother saith unto the servants, 'WHATSOEVER HE SAITH UNTO YOU, DO IT." (John 2:5)
This is the only recording in the Bible where Mary gives a command, so most certainly all Roman Catholics should take heed to her words...."whatsoever he saith unto you, do it"
Since the goal of all good Roman Catholics is to get to heaven, let us look in the Bible and do what Mary said to do, see what Jesus says and do it.
1.) Jesus says.....He is the ONLY one that can be your Saviour. "Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME." (John 14:6)
He did not say.......to trust in saints, the pope, or even His mother Mary, to save you. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
2.) Jesus says.....faith in him is the only kind that can save you. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth no the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John3:36)
He did not say.....special sacrifices or good works were needed to help save you. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Rom. 4:5)
3.) Jesus says........everlasting life is the only kind He gives. "Verily, verily I say unto you, He that heareth My words, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24
He did not say....it was probationary life which depended on our keeping it or we'd lose it. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand." (John 10:28) (This is also an argument against people who believe they can lose their salvation)
4.) Jesus says......Gods words are the ony authority to follow. "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. " (John 12:48)
He did not say......traditions or the commandments of men were His words. "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." "Making the word of God of non effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many suck like things do ye." (Mark 7:7, 13)
That's what I picked up at church today....let me start a new post and show a few differences real quick, and then I need to finish cleaning this nasty house. (lol)
Let me clarify real quick....I should have said this yesterday, but, I'll be honest with you guys here. I had a moment of weakness and made generalizations I shouldn't have. I DO believe that there are some Catholics going to make it to Heaven. Just as there are some JW, Mormons, what have you, that will also make it to Heaven. And also, there are some "christians" who won't make it. My belief is that anyone who trusted Jesus Christ as their Saviour and surrendered their heart to Him is saved and will be in Heaven when their time comes. So, I apologize for any generalizations or for implying that Catholics or whatever are not going to make it to Heaven. It was not my intentions.
I'm going to copy something that I picked up while I was in church last night, then post a few things that Catholics believe that doesn't line up with Scripture. (I didn't mean to turn this into a Catholicism vs Christianity thread, and I"ll drop the matter, if you want me to, when I'm done posting this material) Anyway, here is the little bit of information I picked up while at church last night.
In the gospel of St. John, we read of the marriage feast at Cana. Here Mary emphasizes the importance of Jesus, her son, and the words that He speaks.
Realizing that the wine was gone, and that she herself could not do anything, she tells Jesus, the only One who could do something. Mary then gives the servents A COMMAND, one that we all should consider. "His mother saith unto the servants, 'WHATSOEVER HE SAITH UNTO YOU, DO IT." (John 2:5)
This is the only recording in the Bible where Mary gives a command, so most certainly all Roman Catholics should take heed to her words...."whatsoever he saith unto you, do it"
Since the goal of all good Roman Catholics is to get to heaven, let us look in the Bible and do what Mary said to do, see what Jesus says and do it.
1.) Jesus says.....He is the ONLY one that can be your Saviour. "Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME." (John 14:6)
He did not say.......to trust in saints, the pope, or even His mother Mary, to save you. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
2.) Jesus says.....faith in him is the only kind that can save you. "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth no the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John3:36)
He did not say.....special sacrifices or good works were needed to help save you. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Rom. 4:5)
3.) Jesus says........everlasting life is the only kind He gives. "Verily, verily I say unto you, He that heareth My words, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24
He did not say....it was probationary life which depended on our keeping it or we'd lose it. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand." (John 10:28) (This is also an argument against people who believe they can lose their salvation)
4.) Jesus says......Gods words are the ony authority to follow. "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. " (John 12:48)
He did not say......traditions or the commandments of men were His words. "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." "Making the word of God of non effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many suck like things do ye." (Mark 7:7, 13)
That's what I picked up at church today....let me start a new post and show a few differences real quick, and then I need to finish cleaning this nasty house. (lol)
K, lemme post this and then I'm gonna go clean and will be back to post the information on tongues.
1. In the Bible, the CHURCH is Christ's body; to a Catholic, the church is the Roman Catholic Church system.
2. In the Bible, you enter the church by a new birth which the Holy Spirit imparts when you believe on Jesus Christ; in the Catholic Church, you enter it when a priest sprinkles or pours water on you.
3. In the Bible, you come to God directly through His Son Jesus Christ, whom you contact DIRECTLY; the Catholics get to Christ through Mary, the sacraments and dead saints.
4. In the Bible, you commemorate Christ's death with a supper to show His Second Coming; the Catholics re-enact Christ's death with an unbloody 'sacrifice' for the souls in 'purgatory.'
5. In the Bible, the Scriptures are self interpreting and <U>contradict every Roman Catholic doctrine</U>; to a Catholic, the Bible is a mysterious enigma that only the Catholic authorities can interpret, and you must accept their interpretation every place where <U>they</U> contradict Scripture.
6. In the Bible, Christ's one final and perfect completed atonement completely saves and justifies and predestines the believer to wind up just like Jesus Christ; for a Catholic, no one has his destination fixed, and Christ's sacrifice must be repeated and repeated and repeated, because it does not save anyone 'for sure".
7. The Bible contains sixty-six books; a Catholic Bible contains seventy-three.
8. In the Bible, Mary is a sinner who gets saved by believing on a Saviour and she is never called "mother" one time by Jesus Christ; the Catholic Mary is not only a sinlessly conceived mother of Christ, they call her the sinless Mother of God.
9. In the Bible, the church is built on Jesus Christ, the Rock; to a Catholic, the church is built on Peter.
10. In the Bible, all sin and all sins are PURGED by Christ's BLOOD; In Catholic land, they are purged by FIRE!
I found this on a website and agree with them all. I just copied and pasted these 10 points. I would paste the rest, but it's kind of deflamatory towards Catholicism, and I don't want to insinuate that I think it's ok to flame or belittle anyone's beliefs. I just wanted to point out the differences between the two.
Ok, now off to clean my house up real quick. Will be back.
1. In the Bible, the CHURCH is Christ's body; to a Catholic, the church is the Roman Catholic Church system.
2. In the Bible, you enter the church by a new birth which the Holy Spirit imparts when you believe on Jesus Christ; in the Catholic Church, you enter it when a priest sprinkles or pours water on you.
3. In the Bible, you come to God directly through His Son Jesus Christ, whom you contact DIRECTLY; the Catholics get to Christ through Mary, the sacraments and dead saints.
4. In the Bible, you commemorate Christ's death with a supper to show His Second Coming; the Catholics re-enact Christ's death with an unbloody 'sacrifice' for the souls in 'purgatory.'
5. In the Bible, the Scriptures are self interpreting and <U>contradict every Roman Catholic doctrine</U>; to a Catholic, the Bible is a mysterious enigma that only the Catholic authorities can interpret, and you must accept their interpretation every place where <U>they</U> contradict Scripture.
6. In the Bible, Christ's one final and perfect completed atonement completely saves and justifies and predestines the believer to wind up just like Jesus Christ; for a Catholic, no one has his destination fixed, and Christ's sacrifice must be repeated and repeated and repeated, because it does not save anyone 'for sure".
7. The Bible contains sixty-six books; a Catholic Bible contains seventy-three.
8. In the Bible, Mary is a sinner who gets saved by believing on a Saviour and she is never called "mother" one time by Jesus Christ; the Catholic Mary is not only a sinlessly conceived mother of Christ, they call her the sinless Mother of God.
9. In the Bible, the church is built on Jesus Christ, the Rock; to a Catholic, the church is built on Peter.
10. In the Bible, all sin and all sins are PURGED by Christ's BLOOD; In Catholic land, they are purged by FIRE!
I found this on a website and agree with them all. I just copied and pasted these 10 points. I would paste the rest, but it's kind of deflamatory towards Catholicism, and I don't want to insinuate that I think it's ok to flame or belittle anyone's beliefs. I just wanted to point out the differences between the two.
Ok, now off to clean my house up real quick. Will be back.
I don't understand why you would say SOME Catholics will make it to 'heaven' and SOME Christians won't.Amber said:
You are still implying that Catholics aren't Christians by seperating the two. Of course there are differences in beliefs. That is why there are different denominations of Christianity.
The Catholics are the very first Christians. The Protestants branched off from the Caholics because they didn't want to be under the Pope's rule which eventually lead to the the other branches of Christianity.
I think you should stop now while you are ahead. I think this one has gone way to far. I may not be catholic but i do know enough that even though I can see where you are coming from with your views they are not correct. Which means you can bragg about your religion all you want but you need to do it without comparing it to others. They have reason and belief to think those things as you do your religion. by comparing it to what you write the bible says when they follow the bible too you are saying the catholics are wrong and if i remember reading the rules and the discussions in the forum thread that is not allowed.Amber said:K, lemme post this and then I'm gonna go clean and will be back to post the information on tongues.
1. In the Bible, the CHURCH is Christ's body; to a Catholic, the church is the Roman Catholic Church system.
2. In the Bible, you enter the church by a new birth which the Holy Spirit imparts when you believe on Jesus Christ; in the Catholic Church, you enter it when a priest sprinkles or pours water on you.
3. In the Bible, you come to God directly through His Son Jesus Christ, whom you contact DIRECTLY; the Catholics get to Christ through Mary, the sacraments and dead saints.
4. In the Bible, you commemorate Christ's death with a supper to show His Second Coming; the Catholics re-enact Christ's death with an unbloody 'sacrifice' for the souls in 'purgatory.'
5. In the Bible, the Scriptures are self interpreting and <U>contradict every Roman Catholic doctrine</U>; to a Catholic, the Bible is a mysterious enigma that only the Catholic authorities can interpret, and you must accept their interpretation every place where <U>they</U> contradict Scripture.
6. In the Bible, Christ's one final and perfect completed atonement completely saves and justifies and predestines the believer to wind up just like Jesus Christ; for a Catholic, no one has his destination fixed, and Christ's sacrifice must be repeated and repeated and repeated, because it does not save anyone 'for sure".
7. The Bible contains sixty-six books; a Catholic Bible contains seventy-three.
8. In the Bible, Mary is a sinner who gets saved by believing on a Saviour and she is never called "mother" one time by Jesus Christ; the Catholic Mary is not only a sinlessly conceived mother of Christ, they call her the sinless Mother of God.
9. In the Bible, the church is built on Jesus Christ, the Rock; to a Catholic, the church is built on Peter.
10. In the Bible, all sin and all sins are PURGED by Christ's BLOOD; In Catholic land, they are purged by FIRE!
I found this on a website and agree with them all. I just copied and pasted these 10 points. I would paste the rest, but it's kind of deflamatory towards Catholicism, and I don't want to insinuate that I think it's ok to flame or belittle anyone's beliefs. I just wanted to point out the differences between the two.
Ok, now off to clean my house up real quick. Will be back.
Good Wolf said:
Because some Catholics are NOT Christians. Just as some BAPTISTS are not Christians, some METHODISTS are not Christians, some MORMONS are not Christians.
I believe you skipped over this part, which was the most vital part of my post.
My belief is that anyone who trusted Jesus Christ as their Saviour and surrendered their heart to Him is saved and will be in Heaven when their time comes.
mmynedshlp said:
First of all, when you know me, then you may accuse me of bragging about my religion. I've posted a few times about my religion, and NEVER have I bragged. I've simply posted what I believe and left it at that. When asked to clarify, I do.
Second of all, when I am asked by the moderators to stop, I'll stop. I put up with people in here talking sex talk, cussing, posting pics that make fun of God. I have NEVER said anything except once. I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm not asking you to like me. Heck, I'm not even asking you to read my posts. Jump over them, if you like. I was answering questions I was asked. How rude I would be not to answer them.
So, once you've been here a little bit longer, sweetie, and get to know me, then you may pass judgement on me. I don't mind. Until then, feel free to ignore me and jump over my posts.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Good Wolf said:
And that would include Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Mormons, Catholics, Buddhists, whatever. Take your pick.
To me the bottom line is, out of so many religions in the world .. how can ONE be the right and ONLY one.. I find that mindset to be shallow ... no offense intended to anyoneKaytee said:
ok Whe I wrote brag I did mean it a negative way though when i went back and read it after you pointed it out it would of seemed to come across that way I am sorry but what I mean about bragging was suppose to be positive. Like tell us the good things. Kind of like the bragging thread we have for our kids.Amber said:First of all, when you know me, then you may accuse me of bragging about my religion. I've posted a few times about my religion, and NEVER have I bragged. I've simply posted what I believe and left it at that. When asked to clarify, I do.
Second of all, when I am asked by the moderators to stop, I'll stop. I put up with people in here talking sex talk, cussing, posting pics that make fun of God. I have NEVER said anything except once. I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm not asking you to like me. Heck, I'm not even asking you to read my posts. Jump over them, if you like. I was answering questions I was asked. How rude I would be not to answer them.
So, once you've been here a little bit longer, sweetie, and get to know me, then you may pass judgment on me. I don't mind. Until then, feel free to ignore me and jump over my posts.
If you had read my earlier post you would see I have no problem learning about any religions and I have learned about many. I don't cut criticize or manipulate any others to make a point either.
I may not be a mod but i have been one before and I know if any new member comes on here like me and reads you post and they happen to be catholic ( though I am not but my husbands family is) they would leave because you clearly told them in your statements their religion is not of the bible. You want to get defensive fine. But I agree with the many others who posted in the forum this subject should been stopped as soon as got off subject.
this was suppose to be your outlooks on atheism not your comparison of churches.
Please by all means report me for defending the rules of this forum.
http://www.parentingforums.org/f19/parentingforums-org-survival-guide-148.html[/URL]
http://www.parentingforums.org/f2/fo...ting-6109.html[/URL]
Please show me what exact "rule" you are talking about. I've not attacked not one indivudual on this forum. Nor do I plan on it. Instead of accusing me, perhaps you might want to re-read your statements. Instead of telling me to stop and saying my ways are wrong and that I "brag" on my religion, perhaps you should do as I suggested in my last post, and feel free to use the ignore feature or skip past my posts. It's really not that hard of a task. I can provide step-by-step detailed instructions, if you wish.
As for "others who've asked this discussion to stop" I've seen not one person, other than you, ask it to stop. And you didn't ask, might I point out. You point blank told me to.
I've never said anything to anybody about posting inflammatory remarks towards my religion. I've never said anything about anyone posting curse words. I've never said anything about all the sex talk. It offends me, sure. But that's how they live. Who am I to condemn them? Who am I to call them out and tell them to stop? It's a discussion board, and I've not broken a single rule. You are not the only one who's mod'd, my dear. I mod right now, on a board MUCH stricter than this one. I know the rules of a discussion board quite well, thank you.
As for visitors....if the talk of circumcision being mutilation and vaccinations a possible source of killing your child and if you loved them you wouldn't...if that hasn't scared people off, than neither will my talking about my religion.
I've not called anyone who is Catholic a sinner. Nor have I said they were going to hell. Go back and re-read all my posts. I've simply stated why I don't believe in the Catholic practice. And I MYSELF have said some Catholics will make it to Heaven.
THIS right here is what I was talking about when I said the Christian religion offends so many. I've not said one negative thing. I've not said Catholics are of the devil. I"ve not said Muslims are going to burn in hell. I"ve not said "mmynedship is going to hell." I've not singled anyone out. But because I'm a Christian and believe certain ways, you want to attack me. Fine, feel free to. My shoulders are broad. I've taken far worse from better. And I knew I was going to take some flack. Jesus said I'd be persecuted because He was. Doesn't make it any easier, but I expected it.
Now, if I may. If anyone has a problem discussing this, by all means, send me a private message and let me know. I'll stop. I've already said it once. I won't shove my religion down ANYONE's throat. In fact, the Bible teaches that if one town doesn't accept you, to shake the dust off of your feet and move on to the next. I can certainly do that.
http://www.parentingforums.org/f2/fo...ting-6109.html[/URL]
Please show me what exact "rule" you are talking about. I've not attacked not one indivudual on this forum. Nor do I plan on it. Instead of accusing me, perhaps you might want to re-read your statements. Instead of telling me to stop and saying my ways are wrong and that I "brag" on my religion, perhaps you should do as I suggested in my last post, and feel free to use the ignore feature or skip past my posts. It's really not that hard of a task. I can provide step-by-step detailed instructions, if you wish.
As for "others who've asked this discussion to stop" I've seen not one person, other than you, ask it to stop. And you didn't ask, might I point out. You point blank told me to.
I've never said anything to anybody about posting inflammatory remarks towards my religion. I've never said anything about anyone posting curse words. I've never said anything about all the sex talk. It offends me, sure. But that's how they live. Who am I to condemn them? Who am I to call them out and tell them to stop? It's a discussion board, and I've not broken a single rule. You are not the only one who's mod'd, my dear. I mod right now, on a board MUCH stricter than this one. I know the rules of a discussion board quite well, thank you.
As for visitors....if the talk of circumcision being mutilation and vaccinations a possible source of killing your child and if you loved them you wouldn't...if that hasn't scared people off, than neither will my talking about my religion.
I've not called anyone who is Catholic a sinner. Nor have I said they were going to hell. Go back and re-read all my posts. I've simply stated why I don't believe in the Catholic practice. And I MYSELF have said some Catholics will make it to Heaven.
THIS right here is what I was talking about when I said the Christian religion offends so many. I've not said one negative thing. I've not said Catholics are of the devil. I"ve not said Muslims are going to burn in hell. I"ve not said "mmynedship is going to hell." I've not singled anyone out. But because I'm a Christian and believe certain ways, you want to attack me. Fine, feel free to. My shoulders are broad. I've taken far worse from better. And I knew I was going to take some flack. Jesus said I'd be persecuted because He was. Doesn't make it any easier, but I expected it.
Now, if I may. If anyone has a problem discussing this, by all means, send me a private message and let me know. I'll stop. I've already said it once. I won't shove my religion down ANYONE's throat. In fact, the Bible teaches that if one town doesn't accept you, to shake the dust off of your feet and move on to the next. I can certainly do that.
Amber said:
Actually, don't bother. I'll end it now. I'll not be baited into an argument, nor will I sit and bicker about Catholicism versus Christianity. It's stupid and petty.
Amber (and please don't think I'm picking on you because I'm not) are you also offended by sex and cursing in movies? Just curious.
I have only read to here (just so you know its post 83) but wanted to see if I could clarify how teh Catholics pray for help from others (saints and such) its more of like this "Lord Jesus please send Mary to stand next to me today as I am giving birth. I need her strength that she had the day she bore you into this life" Does that help at all. Or has this been dealt with in the last 10 pages lol?Amber said:
As a new poster I have been very surprised by the strong Christian flavour of the board.
I know there are another 10 pages but post #3 is enough to put anyone off this thread and even the board itself. Please don't assume what anybody elses experience is as a Christian, Athiest or anything else.
I think the responsibility of a parent is to prepare their kids for life, not indoctrinate them into one way to live. I encourage mine to think for themselves and make their own decsions.
I know there are another 10 pages but post #3 is enough to put anyone off this thread and even the board itself. Please don't assume what anybody elses experience is as a Christian, Athiest or anything else.
I think the responsibility of a parent is to prepare their kids for life, not indoctrinate them into one way to live. I encourage mine to think for themselves and make their own decsions.